Grabby Brakes?

lion said:

Either it was addressed in 2014, or we are talking about 2 different things. Brakes are definitely more sensitive, which is fine, all of us are used to that. The issue is that when you are in stop and go traffic, gently pressing the brake pedal can make you and your passengers lurch forward.

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I drive it everyday in DC stop and go traffic and have not experienced what you are talking about....

I've driven a 2014 and it definitely still has the grabby brake problem... It's interesting that neither GM, MB or BMW has this issue but Nissan can't seen to get a handle on it...

lion said:

Either it was addressed in 2014, or we are talking about 2 different things.

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I had this happen in my car. I was stopping and all of a sudden WHAM it was stopping hard. I was driving through the city when it happened and I was putting very little pressure on the pedal. I think there is a bug for sure. It was a freaky feeling for sure.

Over 4,000 miles on it now and only had it happen once though.

bowthom said:

Hello,
I have to work at making my brakes grabby but it's usually gone after the surface rust is worn off the rotors. [...]

Don

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The rotors on a well driven Leaf (i.e. with a driver maximizing regeneration) have lots of friction due to corrosion and pad build-up on the rotor, because the brakes are rarely used. This is especially pronounced in cars living in humid conditions, near the sea shore, in harsh winters or going through the car wash often (one of which will apply to most cars). Which can on occasion feel a bit grabby.

It is a good sign.

"Squeeze the brake pedal like a lemon, don't hammer on it," said our racing instructor. And : "Jackie Stewart won the world championship by the way he could eeeeeaase on and off the brakes." :mrgreen:

my leaf has severe grabby brake issue, went to dealer for battery check and told them about the brake issue and they came back with nothing. they claim that brake is fine and there was no recall nor any updates on this issue.

I am calling the nissan consumer affairs.

HyperMiler said:

The rotors on a well driven Leaf (i.e. with a driver maximizing regeneration) have lots of friction due to corrosion and pad build-up on the rotor, because the brakes are rarely used. This is especially pronounced in cars living in humid conditions, near the sea shore, in harsh winters or going through the car wash often (one of which will apply to most cars). Which can on occasion feel a bit grabby.

It is a good sign.

"Squeeze the brake pedal like a lemon, don't hammer on it," said our racing instructor. And : "Jackie Stewart won the world championship by the way he could eeeeeaase on and off the brakes." :mrgreen:

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Then why don't Priuses have this problem constantly? They can deliver far more regen than a Leaf since they have a transmission.

And it doesn't matter how lemony you push the pedal. There's just a point that, if you cross, will apply a very large amount of breaking force. Not only that, but, for me, it only happens when you <i>don't</i> apply the brake in only a single direction. For example, you have to apply the break, let it up slightly, then apply it again for it to happen. Like when you're stopping slowly in traffic and aiming at a target of the car in front of you. By now I've trained myself to never do this; I'll always kick my foot all the way off the pedal for a split second if I need to let off the brake at all in slow speed situations. It works, but it's silly that I need to do it.

If Nissan can't blend regen and friction properly, they should have just gone Active E style and put all the regen in the gas pedal and all the friction braking in the brake pedal. That removes any need to blend at all and no one would be having these problems. Though, my wife would probably hate that and forbid me buying the car in the first place...

one place where regen always works and where it really needs to. If you back off the gas at freeway speeds it gives you all the green bubbles. That's where you have a lot of energy to dissipate. at slower speeds, I don't think it makes much difference whether you have regen or not as to the amount of your range. I have decided to just drive the car and not worry about it, as it makes little difference in my range I have discovered.

paulk said:

Then why don't Priuses have this problem constantly? They can deliver far more regen than a Leaf since they have a transmission.

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The Prius doesn't have more regen. B mode in the Prius is not the same as B mode in the LEAF. In the Prius, B mode doesn't capture any energy (in fact, it wastes it). Think of it as engine braking.

paulk said:

my leaf has severe grabby brake issue, went to dealer for battery check and told them about the brake issue and they came back with nothing. they claim that brake is fine and there was no recall nor any updates on this issue.

I am calling the nissan consumer affairs.

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Use the info I posted several pages ago, assuming you have a 2013:

SB 2013 LEAF; Brake Pedal Sensitive at Speeds Below 15 MPH
Summary of NTB14017:
If YOU CONFIRM Customer may experience some brake sensitivity at speeds below 15 mph. The customer may experience this issue while in stop-and-go traffic conditions. And No DTCs are present in the Electrically-driven Intelligent Brake Control Unit.* If DTCs are present, refer to the specific section of the applicable Electronic Service Manual (ESM) and diagnose first. ACTION 1. Refer to step 14 in the SERVICE PROCEDURE to confirm this bulletin applies to the vehicle you are working on. 2. If this bulletin applies, reprogram the Electrically-driven Intelligent Brake Control Unit with CONSULT III plus (CIII plus). Please see this bulletin for further details.

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lion said:

pkulak said:

Then why don't Priuses have this problem constantly? They can deliver far more regen than a Leaf since they have a transmission.

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The Prius doesn't have more regen. B mode in the Prius is not the same as B mode in the LEAF. In the Prius, B mode doesn't capture any energy (in fact, it wastes it). Think of it as engine braking.

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When did I say anything about B mode on the Prius? It can capture more energy during braking than the Leaf can (no matter what the "mode" either are in).

However, I'm starting to doubt myself a bit on that. I know it can capture more at low speeds because of the transmission, but at high speeds I'm not sure if it can handle as much current as the Leaf can.

The rotors on a well driven Leaf (i.e. with a driver maximizing regeneration) have lots of friction due to corrosion and pad build-up on the rotor, because the brakes are rarely used. This is especially pronounced in cars living in humid conditions, near the sea shore, in harsh winters or going through the car wash often (one of which will apply to most cars). Which can on occasion feel a bit grabby.

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The rotors on many newer cars rust very rapidly, even in dry weather. I first noticed this on our last Prius, which would make grinding noises after sitting for 36 hours - from rotor rust. My Leaf also has it. It's due to inferior steel in the rotors, and shouldn't be normal. You shouldn't see rust-covered contact surfaces when the car only sits for 24 hours and it rains a little.

no grabby brakes here. 2014 SV with 4400 miles. B mode definitely will "grab" more than D, but it is all smooth down to a stop. no panic stops yet, so can't report that experience. Drove an '04 Prius for 10 years and the Leaf seems to blend braking better (friction and regen). Prius would be all regen down to 12 MPH, then 'grabby' friction brakes, especially in the rain. Leaf, not so much. much better feel and evenness.

QueenBee said:

rlewis123 said:

That is too bad. The problem seems to be the brakes grab or they stop working and the car wants to coast into intersections. A real safety issue for sure because you can't modulate the brakes. It does it the same in any combination of ECO, D or B settings.

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The brakes being grabby is a completely different issues than the brakes not working...

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Not realty, because the computer runs everything....

kubel said:

Anyone else experience pulsing brakes when using consistent brake pressure after the brake update? It's as if the brakes start to grab, then the car lets go slightly, then they grab, etc... Happens about twice per second in a rhythm (fixed just like grabby brakes, completely let off brake, then press brake and problem is gone). It's not violently pulsing, and there's no feedback in the pedal. I've added it to my list of things to fix when I go in for my battery check (aka driver check) next month, just curious if anyone else has experienced this.

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Yes it appended to me about 10 times in 46 000 km, ....Nissan mecanics always say that the car is just fine and that I have to get used to drive a Leaf ??? after 46 000km. I hope Nissan gets serious about it pretty soon.

cdrews said:

It would be useful if people that experience the grabby brakes file a complaint with the NHTSA. That way a record exists of how serious and widespread this problem is. This also might create additional motivation for Nissan to work towards a fix.

The website to file a complaint is here:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-= Clemens

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That's what I'm gone do, in Canada. I went to the dealer 3 times and called Nissan Canada 4 times and nothing append....I am desperate, the next step is to return the vehicule.

poolrider said:

It's been two weeks since i contacted Nissan about my brake problems and have gotten no reply or updates. They were supposed to send an engineer to the dealership to discuss it with them, but they never did. I'm really disappointed with them. You still having issues with your brakes? I am.

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Same for me.
My first visit was 4 months ago. Still nothing done. Nissan don't take care mush. All the problems like grabby brakes, extremely sensitive brakes and pulsing brakes I have them all... . I live in Canada, so I am calling Transport Canada. Hoping Nissan get responsible and act on it.

There are different "grabby brake" issues, which I believe are all areas that lack programming refinement:

1) Brake Assist
LEAF features Brake Assist, which will increase brake pressure when it detects a panic brake attempt by the driver. This can cause the brakes to grab hard and not let go even when you release the brake. It's designed to bring the car to a complete stop since drivers tend to not apply full pressure on the brakes in an emergency where they should. This is an annoying feature, and it can sometimes activate when you don't mean for it to. Fully releasing the brake and pressing the accelerator will stop Brake Assist.

2) Grabby Brakes
Unusually touchy brakes, usually when you're riding your brake such as in traffic conditions, tends to happen in cooler temperatures. It's probably a glitch in regen programming. Workaround: Fully lift off the brake pedal and then re-apply the brakes always fixes the problem until your next braking event.

3) Pulsing Brakes
Touchy/sensitive for one half a second, normal for another half second- repeats. This pulsing can be corrected the same way a grabby brake can be corrected- fully lift off the brake pedal and reapply the brakes.

Then there's the sort of unrelated "ungrabby brakes". If braking while hitting a sharp bump in the road / pothole, anti-lock braking may kick in, significantly reducing braking pressure in one or more wheels, usually at the worst possible time such as slowing while approaching stopped traffic. All anti-lock brake cars do this to some extent, but LEAFs system is overly aggressive (this becomes incredibly apparent in winter weather conditions when roads are slippery- the car will aggressively anti-lock- to the point of making the car unsafe).

^Excellent summary kubel.
All are defects that create unnecessary risk and hazard. Nissan should fix all of them.

Just throwing this out .... had grabby brakes a lot more during the second year than in the first. Got brand new Goodyear Fuel Max tires 2 weeks ago and expected grabby brakes in the cool rain which has typically been happening. It didn't happen. Obviously there is some level of environmental influence on the problem that can't be explained (yet). It is going to be interesting to see what happens when it gets cold. Especially if the rest of the KC crew sticks with the OEM Ecoppias while I'm on the Goodyear's. And yes, I know it sounds stupid to say tires are affecting brakes. One reason why I hesitated for 2 weeks on posting.

ksnogas2112 said:

...Got brand new Goodyear Fuel Max tires 2 weeks ago...

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Do you have a sense of any difference in noise with the Goodyear tires? I read a number of reviews that said they were noisy and if drivers think that with ICE cars, it might be pretty significant on a very quiet LEAF. So, I've been wondering what LEAF drivers with Goodyear Fuel Max tires think.

dgpcolorado said:

ksnogas2112 said:

...Got brand new Goodyear Fuel Max tires 2 weeks ago...

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Do you have a sense of any difference in noise with the Goodyear tires? I read a number of reviews that said they were noisy and if drivers think that with ICE cars, it might be pretty significant on a very quiet LEAF. So, I've been wondering what LEAF drivers with Goodyear Fuel Max tires think.

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The only extra noise I can report is with the windows down you can hear the tread when turning the corner at slow speed. But I would expect that with any new tire and it's only when turning corners or going slowly in parking lots. It does feel a little slower on acceleration but coasting feels like it goes much further than before. Best of all is the peace of mind in having new tread. The old ones were so thin that I was worried I would pop a tire on the gravel roads when camping.