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Christopher said:
First Guy said:
Other Guy said:
No, it's a three year program for Toyota: model years 2012-2014.

kinda sounds like there may be a few lingering on the lots at least a bit into 2015
Maybe... but they also all disappear quickly whenever they offer these deals to knock off $10-14,000. Take a look at the myrav4ev.com forum to see a history of this. I'm sure they'll be able to get rid of them easily enough.

Now at $16,500 off. These will all be gone by the end of 2014.
 
edatoakrun said:
Servicing is a Big Issue With the Toyota RAV4 EV (Especially Outside California)

By Jim Motavalli · February 21, 2014

Toyota is facing a small tsunami of concern relating to servicing of its RAV4 EV, which sports many components (electric powertrain with battery pack, charging system, inverter, motor, gearbox and associated software) from Tesla.


I pontificated many of these issues in an article I wrote on this forum some time ago:

http://www.plugincars.com/will-toyota-cancel-rav4-ev-compliance-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since I wrote that article, I took Toyota to a "Lemon Law" hearing for them to take back my car, after it spent over a month in the shop. For the several (many?) other Rav4 EV's that Toyota has voluntarily taken back with a hushed tone with no public hearing or fanfare, and with many of the same issues as my car, Toyota decided to fight me.

The "evidence" that Toyota used in the hearing to indicate that their car is perfect, and that I'm a bad person who destroyed their perfectly fine car came from literally THOUSANDS of my forum posts and articles. They actually had them printed out in a big, thick pile. Let's just say that the arbitrator is paid for by Toyota and I lost that round, and now I have to go to real court to get this resolved. Since I am frequently out the country on business, this whole process is a real pain.

I otherwise really like the car, if it could just stay out of the shop. Sadly, in the last week or two, the car refused to go into gear with my wife at the wheel and me half way around the world. Sadly, I know the issue all too well, and the best I'd get from Toyota is that they either couldn't duplicate the problem, or they couldn't fix the problem. That doesn't mean that the folks at Tesla and the folks in the research end of Toyota in Detroit, Michigan aren't working on all these problems. There is a new firmware update regularly, the latest being version 1.3.83, from 1.3.50-ish when I bought my car.

So, what's next for me? I bought a second Rav4 EV for our company, Quick Charge Power LLC, so that we can use it to develop a CHAdeMO quick charge port for those cars. We call that project "JdeMO". Much like Tesla Model S can do now, I hope to be able to drive a Rav4 EV from Mexico to Canada with nothing but DC quick charging all along the route.

Hopefully, Toyota will get most of the bugs addressed before the production stops sometime this year. I fear that once they are producing their hydrogen Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) compliance car for California only, this CARB-ZEV compliance car will be quickly forgotten. Perhaps, with good riddance!

For the record, Toyoyta and other companies producing ZEV hydrogen cars for California will get 9 credits per car, with $68 million in California tax payer money devoted to building hydrogen stations for them. Obviously, nobody will want to take one out of state. Win, win, win for Toyota.

In contrast, the Rav4 EV only gets 3 credits, people like them outside of California where Toyota doesn't get 3 credits, and they have to pay a sub-contractor (Tesla) a lot of money per vehicle. Plus, there is no diligent California program for EV quick charging like Washington state and Oregon have with their West Coast Electric Highway.

The Rav4 EV was always the interim compliance car, and it shows.
 
TonyWilliams said:
rav4mnl

The Rav4 EV was always the interim compliance car, and it shows.
If they only complied with their compliance intent! It's a sad dance to watch. After being through heaven to hell with the ActiveE, I'm not sure if I will ever be able to drive a low-volume EV. Not unless I was close to the development team. We had the best after-sales specialist on this planet in Oxnard, CA. If it wasn't for him, I would have lemon-lawed the car long time ago.
 
I really really really want to trade in my leaf for rav 4 ev. I spend so much time sitting around waiting to get a get in line for a quick charge and then to finallly charge to go anywhere long distance. My 2011 leaf only goes another 55 miles freeway after a quick charge session so the rav 4 ev would save me a ton of time (the Leaf goes much less distance if there is a mountain along the route).

The possibility of having the rav 4 in the shop all the time is a pretty big dealbreaker. On the other hand if Tony can get the quick charger working for the rav 4 that would be epic.

I guess I'll just wait to see what happens first, the 150 mile leaf :) or the rav4 with a QCing upgrade by Tony.

If only Toyota would support a L3 QCer on the Rav4 themselves they would have a real hit. Another example of Toyota not trying to be successful with this car. Same goes for the ford focus and the honda fit ev.... every EV should have level 3 charging standard, otherwise the car is a sad joke. Imagine having to take 3-8 hours to fill a car with a tank of gas, and sometimes having to wait til the person in front of you finishes filling first before you can fill up. For all the smart people at these big auto companies they sure seem to make poor decisions around ev's that confirm their tepidness around ev's after they make poorly planned products that don't sell well.
 
EVDrive, there are a ton of happy Rav4-EV drivers out there. Don't let the EV system error business scare you. Despite the odd quirk here and there, you just can't say enough about having a battery twice as big as the Leaf's, at a very reasonable price. If I were you I'd snatch one up now - who knows when this deal is going away and how crappy the next one will be. I wish I bought two back when it was $10k off a purchase with 0% apr, but the current lease deal is pretty great too.
 
fooljoe said:
I wish I bought two back when it was $10k off a purchase with 0% apr, but the current lease deal is pretty great too.

The current deal is fantastic. If you lease and then buyout the lease at the end it's like a purchase price of $33k. $16,500 off the $49500 price of the Rav. Pretty close to the price of the Leaf SL but with much more room in the car and twice the battery (not quite twice the range due to it being a big box).
 
I pulled the trigger on a white one yesterday. I'm quite pleased. I started out in Carson with the car and drove 100 miles home. I still had 4 bars of battery left, and could have taken the family out for dinner and shopping if I had wanted to. I'm crossing my fingers that I either don't see the problem, or they get it fixed before it becomes an issue for me.
 
palmermd said:
like a purchase price of $33k
We should note that you mean $33k after the $7500 tax credit, so in purchase terms the current lease deal translates to about $9k off (not sure exactly how it works with the strange lease fees and taxes, but the money factor on this lease is virtually 0) - you're still talking about $5k more than a Leaf SL. You can pay a little more for an unlimited mileage lease, however, so if you drive a lot that can make this lease a very good deal.
 
Valdemar said:
So, the unlimited miles lease works out to be in the mid-$400, is that right?
I think that's right, but that number is with $0 down (you pocket the $2500 state rebate, so effectively it's about $70/month less.) Make sure you're not comparing it directly to the $199/mo $2k down Leaf S lease.
 
Too bad I already have my Leaf :( Even if I have to send it to the dump after 3 years my out of pocket cost will be about the same or less compared to leasing the Rav4 and what I can get on a trade-in for the Leaf.
 
Traded to the RAV4-EV. All I can say is wow this is a nice ride.
Bitter-sweet to see the LEAF go but LEAF just was not turning out to be the the vehicle that would last ten years. Or even five.
 
I can't make up my mind about the RAV4. On one hand I don't want to miss an opportunity because once they are gone they are gone, on another I will likely be able to make my Leaf work for my needs over the next 36 months and the RAV4 lease will be 4-5k more expensive over this term than driving the paid-off Leaf. Lack of QC is annoying but not a deal breaker with the longer range the RAV4 offers. Reliability is a concern, but the Leaf will soon be out of the powertrain warranty so any non-trivial failure will cost me $$$. Hmm.
 
Valdemar said:
the RAV4 lease will be 4-5k more expensive over this term than driving the paid-off Leaf.
Not if the Leaf continues to depreciate at a rate like smkettner saw!
Lack of QC is annoying but not a deal breaker with the longer range the RAV4 offers.
Have no fear, Tony's working on it! Also, the funny thing I've come to think about QC is that while the Leaf has it, it's pretty much useless for it. The battery's just too small - if you're trying to make a long drive the ratio of charge time to drive time is simply too high. QC would be awesome in the Rav though, since the range is just enough to actually take some road trips.
 
Valdemar said:
... Reliability is a concern, but the Leaf will soon be out of the powertrain warranty so any non-trivial failure will cost me $$$. Hmm.
I went the RAV4 route, but I will point out that you can extend the LEAF's warranty if you're really concerned. I will likely do the same on the RAV4 in the future, assuming I do indeed keep it as I plan...of course I had intended to buy the LEAF off lease, but changed my mind with the battery issues.
 
^^^ Too late for the Nissan-backed protection plan, as it has to be purchased before 3y/36k miles. There are other options, but given the track of record of Japanese-made Leafs I'd rather take my risks with it than to purchase a dubious warranty from 3rd party.
 
fooljoe said:
Valdemar said:
the RAV4 lease will be 4-5k more expensive over this term than driving the paid-off Leaf.
Not if the Leaf continues to depreciate at a rate like smkettner saw!
Lack of QC is annoying but not a deal breaker with the longer range the RAV4 offers.
Have no fear, Tony's working on it! Also, the funny thing I've come to think about QC is that while the Leaf has it, it's pretty much useless for it. The battery's just too small - if you're trying to make a long drive the ratio of charge time to drive time is simply too high. QC would be awesome in the Rav though, since the range is just enough to actually take some road trips.

Considering $11k is the value of my Leaf today, I will still come ahead of the RAV4 lease over 36 months even if it depreciates to $0. QC is a pain for long-distance travel with the Leaf, and it is still a pain with the RAV4 albeit to a lesser degree. However, a daily 10-minute QC session on the way home from work will address all my needs to offset battery capacity loss. I applaud Tony's efforts on the QC project, but personally wouldn't risk using it on my car (if I had one). Anything happens to the car/battery during quick charging and you end up stuck with paying for all repairs if Toyota finds out the car was modded. The risk is just not worth it IMO considering how expensive these cars are.
 
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