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Boomer23 said:
surfingslovak said:
TonyWilliams said:
They are getting better. I make a number of modifications, including adding drainage holes, additional security for the cord from slipping out, in addition to thermal protection and a nifty LED light.
batteryproblemmnl


Note that the cord set is from Uchen, formerly known as Dostar. Judging from the photo, this is likely their 2nd gen plug. It received an UL listing about a year ago, which I confirmed at the time. TucsonEV has been reselling Uchen plugs and cord sets for a while, even before they were UL listed. Some of the earlier products had an occasional ...,

That bad J plug was NOT from Tucson EV. It is misleading to refer to it in a discussion about Tucson EV.
I believe that TucsonEV had always been reselling Uchen plugs and cord sets. If the EVSE didn't contain a plug from TucsonEV, then I stand corrected and apologize. I certainly dis not mean to insinuate that TucsonEV was doing something incorrectly. This does not change the fact that there were quality concerns about Uchen J1772 plugs in the past, which was independently communicated and confirmed by Kevin Sharpe's Zero Carbon World, which considered these plugs for their network. The plug you used, whether from TucsonEV or not, certainly looks like it was from Uchen. Uchen mentioned in a private conversation that they redesigned their J1772 plug, and they should work better now. I would be careful with the old plugs from Uchen though. That's the only reason why I mentioned it at all.
 
Well, I've jumped in!

Just brought home a Tesla... that is to say, half a Tesla... my 2013 RAV4 EV:
http://crimdom.net/2013/10/brought-home-a-tesla/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now what I really need is a compatible 240V charge cord! (Yeah, looking forward to getting one of Tony's adapted Tesla UMC's.)

Oh, and Nissan... get the hint?? Really want more range! Here I am trading in for a less efficient compact SUV-sized vehicle I don't really need, with reliability concerns no one wants to deal with, just to get some more convenient driving range!
 
Christopher said:
Here I am trading in for a less efficient compact SUV-sized vehicle I don't really need, with reliability concerns no one wants to deal with, just to get some more convenient driving range!

Most others don't, for these same reasons. So I guess no increase in the driving range from Nissan any time soon.
 
If you have been following the RAV4 EV forum you will see that they are just not selling. This is a California compliance car that Toyota was forced to create.

There is currently a killer lease deal through Diane at Carson Toyota. She will discount the car over a thousand dollars and Toyota has $16500 lease assistance.

After seeing this I looked on Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book for my Leaf SL Premium. Edmunds was ridiculously high and KBB was around 27K. I owe about 29.9K. A trade in of 26K was doable.

Longo offered $19K, Carmax offered $18K and Diane offered 22K. I was shocked. It appears that the Leaf is a soft seller and the book value is out the window.

It is a good thing I like my Leaf since I am stuck with it. It fits my needs but a RAV4 EV would be cool.
 
GlennD said:
Longo offered $19K, Carmax offered $18K and Diane offered 22K. I was shocked. It appears that the Leaf is a soft seller and the book value is out the window.
"What you owe" doesn't factor in to it at all. Invoice on a SL is just under $34k - truecar.com is showing transaction prices slightly under that.

Subtract $10k in rebates ($7.5k fed, $2.5k state) and that's what you would expect the retail for an almost new LEAF would be - $24k. Edmunds and KBB don't know what they're doing - to suggest that a car is worth more used than new is just crazy.

Your offer of $22k from Diane is a great offer for a 7 month old LEAF. You'll have to transfer your CA $2.5k rebate from your LEAF to the RAV4-EV.

I looked at Dianne's last post, doesn't look like buying a RAV4-EV is worth it without the $10k Toyota used to have on it. Simply not worth $49k.

Low-mid $400s for a lease isn't bad, but when you can lease a LEAF for almost half that, unless you need the range and/or room of the RAV4-EV, it's just not worth it.
 
drees said:
I looked at Dianne's last post, doesn't look like buying a RAV4-EV is worth it without the $10k Toyota used to have on it. Simply not worth $49k.
With $16,500 off the lease and basically zero interest, you could just buy the lease out and it would be effectively about the same as $9k off a purchase. There might be some weird extra fees with a lease, but it's really not that much worse than the $10k off deal (still glad I bought mine then though :) ).

drees said:
Low-mid $400s for a lease isn't bad, but when you can lease a LEAF for almost half that, unless you need the range and/or room of the RAV4-EV, it's just not worth it.
Don't forget that price is for $0 down (not even 1st month payment - you only pay 35) and unlimited mileage. I don't think you can lease a Leaf for anything close to half that with similar terms.
 
Realistically, after half a year of ownership I would never considered a new car, The inflated trade in values on Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book gave me false hope.

That said the extra range of the RAV4 EV would be welcome but the Leaf fills my current needs.
 
fooljoe said:
With $16,500 off the lease and basically zero interest, you could just buy the lease out and it would be effectively about the same as $9k off a purchase. There might be some weird extra fees with a lease, but it's really not that much worse than the $10k off deal (still glad I bought mine then though :) ).
Good point - looks like 36 months at 12k mi/year would be around $14,500+tax. $20,418 residual puts you at $35k + tax.

drees said:
Low-mid $400s for a lease isn't bad, but when you can lease a LEAF for almost half that, unless you need the range and/or room of the RAV4-EV, it's just not worth it.
Don't forget that price is for $0 down (not even 1st month payment - you only pay 35) and unlimited mileage. I don't think you can lease a Leaf for anything close to half that with similar terms.[/quote]
Not with unlimited mileage, but with 12k you can easily do $199/mo + $1,999 down or $8,964+tax for 36 months.

Yeah, not quite half the RAV4-EV, but ~$5,500 less over 3 years, or ~$154/month. You can lease a Smart EV for that much! (ok, not quite, but they are leasing for $139/mo + $2433 down w/free maintenance or $203/mo + tax).
 
Yeah, but that Leaf lease is for the completely stripped-down Leaf S version - not exactly fair to compare the Rav to that. And Smart EV? Come on... :lol:
 
fooljoe said:
Yeah, but that Leaf lease is for the completely stripped-down Leaf S version - not exactly fair to compare the Rav to that. And Smart EV? Come on... :lol:

not always. I got S with charge, mud flaps, floor mats

zero down (actually it was MINUS $35.75 down due to tab fees refund)

15,000 miles $245.75 a month

the unlimited miles on the RAV is the real value. i would pay more for that on the LEAF
 
Please remind me if RAV4-EV will still be selling into late 2015?
I realize when they are gone they are gone but will they close out this year or next?

I think this might be my next step if the Nissan warranty does not hand me a battery by summer 2015.
 
smkettner said:
Please remind me if RAV4-EV will still be selling into late 2015?
I realize when they are gone they are gone but will they close out this year or next?

I think this might be my next step if the Nissan warranty does not hand me a battery by summer 2015.
No, it's a three year program for Toyota: model years 2012-2014.
 
Christopher said:
smkettner said:
Please remind me if RAV4-EV will still be selling into late 2015?
I realize when they are gone they are gone but will they close out this year or next?

I think this might be my next step if the Nissan warranty does not hand me a battery by summer 2015.
No, it's a three year program for Toyota: model years 2012-2014.

kinda sounds like there may be a few lingering on the lots at least a bit into 2015
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Christopher said:
smkettner said:
Please remind me if RAV4-EV will still be selling into late 2015?
I realize when they are gone they are gone but will they close out this year or next?

I think this might be my next step if the Nissan warranty does not hand me a battery by summer 2015.
No, it's a three year program for Toyota: model years 2012-2014.

kinda sounds like there may be a few lingering on the lots at least a bit into 2015
Maybe... but they also all disappear quickly whenever they offer these deals to knock off $10-14,000. Take a look at the myrav4ev.com forum to see a history of this. I'm sure they'll be able to get rid of them easily enough.
 
For those interested, a RAV4 EV group has been recently started on Facebook. It's getting very good traction, and hopefully it will be a good resource for you:

rav4mnl

Click to open
 
Christopher said:
smkettner said:
Please remind me if RAV4-EV will still be selling into late 2015? I realize when they are gone they are gone but will they close out this year or next?
No, it's a three year program for Toyota: model years 2012-2014.

Also, any replacement with another BEV is unlikely. As predicted by Tony Williams and others some time ago, Toyota intends to meet CARB ZEV in the future with hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, and their first one is due next year if the reports are accurate:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/27/toyota-fcv/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Servicing is a Big Issue With the Toyota RAV4 EV (Especially Outside California)

By Jim Motavalli · February 21, 2014

Toyota is facing a small tsunami of concern relating to servicing of its RAV4 EV, which sports many components (electric powertrain with battery pack, charging system, inverter, motor, gearbox and associated software) from Tesla.

Servicing That's Not Routine

In our previous article on this topic, Toyota said that the car can get routine servicing at any Toyota dealer, but in an online forum RAV4 owners deny this. Jspearman writes, “Toyota WILL NOT provide routine service to RAV4 EVs outside of their 25 [specially designated EV] dealers….Despite the fact I paid an extra $1,200 for Toyota Extra Care, it doesn’t matter. I have to drive 2 1/2 hours to a certified dealer to even get a firmware update. Lousy service. I promise that I will never ever own another Toyota unless they get their act together.”

There’s also a lot of complaints with the ill-performing and Tesla-supplied Gateway ECU, which handles communications between Toyota and Tesla parts. Apparently, they don’t always speak the same language. One owner, “Raver,” reports getting a “screen of death” with just 2,500 miles on the odometer. “Sea Monster” of Tiburon and “TonyWilliams” of San Diego report similar issues, with both cars in the shop for extended periods.

Tesla declined to comment, and it’s unclear why the company isn’t more responsive in answering service questions about the car. According to Toyota's Jana Hartline, "The RAV4 is a Toyota product, and Tesla is a supplier for that product. We do work closely with Tesla to ensure the quality and durability of the vehicle and all components."

No One's Home

Other owners are mega-annoyed after showing up for scheduled maintenance at one of the certified EV service centers and being sent home because no qualified tech is available. Problems are especially acute for out-of-state owners, who really have to jump through hoops to get service—and can’t get the free 5,000- and 10,000-mile ToyotaCare service or roadside assistance.

“RAV4 EV ToyotaCare does not apply out of state,” says Hartline. “Although a customer can technically take their vehicle to any dealership for, say, a tire rotation, that service would not be covered under ToyotaCare.”

Hartline defends the company’s service network. “There are actually 53 Toyota dealers in California who sell and service the RAV4 EV, not 25 as some have said on the EV forum,” she said. “These dealers voluntarily opted-in to the program, and they invested in specialized equipment and training.”

Why Aren't They More Worried?

Since Toyota is renowned both for quality and service, one does have to ask, as owner Dr. Mike Bornstein does, “Why is Toyota doing this? Is there some financial reason behind their actions?...Although built as a compliance car, the RAV4 EV would be very popular in the EV community if properly advertised.”

I agree. As Brad Berman wrote in this space, it’s basically a bargain Tesla, wrapped in the body of a proven-in-the-field high-utility Toyota. What’s not to like? ...

http://www.plugincars.com/servicing-big-issue-toyota-rav4-ev-especially-outside-california-129402.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the other hand, you could alternately describe The RAV4 EV as a sh*t-on-stale-white-bread-sandwich, consisting of Toyota's discontinued ICEV design, surrounding the unreliable Tesla drivetrain.

And built in only tiny numbers for compliance purposes so that the parts and service are assured of being difficult when new, and near impossible to get as time goes on.

What could possibly go wrong for the RAV4 EV owner?

Too bad for the class-action Bar that Toyota never sold enough of these things to add up to a very big payoff, as it sounds like it could be a nearly sure-thing in the courts.
 
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