EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

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I just got the 220v, 24 amp EVSE charging cable from EVSE Upgrade (http://evseupgrade.com/) for my 2013 Leaf. Wow. With the stock Nissan trickle charger I got about 4.5 miles of range per hour of charging. With the EVSE Upgrade cable I now get about 20 miles of range per hour of charging.

Given its portability (just the cable, which you can take with you), flexibility (they offer several different adapters for the multitude of 220v plug types), and very low cost (about $300) this seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
dm33 said:
  • Blink - Sounds like there isn't one available. Going to be available in the summer. No details on pricing other than starting at $699.
  • Bosch - Going to be available in June sometime (this month). Starts at $450 but gets comparable to others with the longer cord and 30A. I haven't been able to find more details.
    out how the charge is going.
Click to expand...


  • FYI Blink's new HQ model and the Bosch units are all made by a third-party (Delta). The only differences that I can tell are the Blinkhas a black case vs white for the Bosch, and the Blink is only available in 30 amp.
 
I also bought the Siemens. Easy enough to install and so far it works great. Apparently there is a 30% tax rebate on it, according to the listing on Amazon where I bought it.
 
loomis2 said:
I also bought the Siemens. Easy enough to install and so far it works great. Apparently there is a 30% tax rebate on it, according to the listing on Amazon where I bought it.
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If you leased your LEAF you ought to be able to claim the EVSE tax credit. However, if you purchased your LEAF and claim the $7500 tax credit for it, you might not also be able to claim the EVSE tax credit because of how it is structured. A lot of us found that out the hard way. Perhaps the problem has been fixed in the tax law for 2013, I don't know.
 
I did purchase my Leaf, and I intend to claim the whole $7,500 credit. I was also intending to claim the 30% credit so that is good to know...or bad to know, depending on how you look at it.
 
loomis2 said:
dgpcolorado said:
If you leased your LEAF you ought to be able to claim the EVSE tax credit. However, if you purchased your LEAF and claim the $7500 tax credit for it, you might not also be able to claim the EVSE tax credit because of how it is structured. A lot of us found that out the hard way. Perhaps the problem has been fixed in the tax law for 2013, I don't know.
Click to expand...
I did purchase my Leaf, and I intend to claim the whole $7,500 credit. I was also intending to claim the 30% credit so that is good to know...or bad to know, depending on how you look at it.
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I looked up the wording of the law. The only thing they changed for 2013 was the expiration date. The problem is that everyone is subject to AMT whether they know it or not. It's just that the AMT doesn't start until you get to a significantly higher income level than where the regular income tax starts, and then gradually plays catch-up. So until you get to the cross-over point you can ignore the AMT. Well, most people can, but not you, not this year.

Just to pull an example out of the air (not real numbers) let's say your regular tax is $9,000, and your AMT is $4,000. You always have to pay the higher of the two, so you pay your regular tax and ignore the AMT. But for 2013 you will take a $7,500 credit on your regular tax, meaning you only pay $1,500. OOPS! What about that $4,000 AMT? Not to worry, you won't have to pay it, but you can only take the 30% EVSE credit if your regular tax after other credits is still higher than your AMT without subtracting credits, and it isn't.

That's why most people who buy their LEAF are unable to take the EVSE credit unless they install the EVSE in one tax year and buy the car in a different tax year. Since the EVSE credit expires at the end of this year, and you didn't get the EVSE last year, you are out of luck unless you are one of those rare people who use a tax year different from the calendar year. Or, unless you fit in a very narrow range of income where you pay more than $7,500 in taxes but the AMT is still more than $7,500 lower than the regular tax.

Ray
 
Called Bosch and looks like they will be shipping the new chargers 2nd week of July. That seems like the cheapest/best option available assuming you can wait... right?

Thanks,
Roy
 
Got myself a Siemens Evse for 850 of amazon, I had 100 off with my reward points which made it 750. I had it installed for 650 with certified electrician. Works like a charm. Looks great.
 
I'm planning to get the Siemens versicharge, debating from Home Depot or amazon. I'd like to get a 6-50 outlet installed and get the rear mount EVSE. That way if I move, I can take the EVSE with me. I'm planning to have a GFCI breaker installed with a 40a circuit using 8/2 wire. I've had a couple of electricians provide estimates but they both sounded questionable. I've considered doing it myself, I'm a EE, but I don't like the thought of working in the main service panel. Even with the main breaker flipped, there's still significant live wire showing.
 
dm33 said:
I'm planning to get the Siemens versicharge, debating from Home Depot or amazon. I'd like to get a 6-50 outlet installed and get the rear mount EVSE. That way if I move, I can take the EVSE with me. I'm planning to have a GFCI breaker installed with a 40a circuit using 8/2 wire. I've had a couple of electricians provide estimates but they both sounded questionable. I've considered doing it myself, I'm a EE, but I don't like the thought of working in the main service panel. Even with the main breaker flipped, there's still significant live wire showing.
Click to expand...

Ah man, if you are an EE this is not scary! With the main breaker turned off there is very little exposed live bits and they are generally all located at the top of the panel. Most people wouldn't even turn off the main breaker for a job like this!
 
QueenBee said:
Ah man, if you are an EE this is not scary! With the main breaker turned off there is very little exposed live bits and they are generally all located at the top of the panel. Most people wouldn't even turn off the main breaker for a job like this!
Click to expand...
I have a very healthy respect for 240v. The new run would come in the top of the main panel. There's 1/2-3/4" of bare wire showing from the main coming in as it enters the main breaker. I worry mostly about fishing a long bare ground wire over to the ground bus bar over and around the live main wires. The rest of the panel seems relatively tame even without turning off the breaker. It would be a very bad day if I touched one of the mains or worse shorted them out, maybe my last. Would be nice if I could figure out a way to shut it off outside. There's nothing but a thin metal ring with a plastic end keeping the meter box closed. The power company said electricians know how to shut it off. Not sure I believe the person on the phone.
 
We had a pretty easy self-install for our Siemens. The breaker box is in the garage and the plug went in right next to it. There were two unused ports left in the box. Ran double 40's with 8 gauge wire. The hard part was finding the parts. We had to go to a local specialty shop since Home Depot doesn't stock them.
 
dm33 said:
I'm planning to get the Siemens versicharge, debating from Home Depot or amazon. I'd like to get a 6-50 outlet installed and get the rear mount EVSE. That way if I move, I can take the EVSE with me.
Click to expand...

I believe both the rear and bottom mount take the same plug. You should be able to take it with you if you move no matter which one you decide to buy. I bought the bottom mount thinking it would be easier to install on the wall, but having done it they both should be equally easy.
 
dm33 said:
QueenBee said:
Ah man, if you are an EE this is not scary! With the main breaker turned off there is very little exposed live bits and they are generally all located at the top of the panel. Most people wouldn't even turn off the main breaker for a job like this!
Click to expand...
I have a very healthy respect for 240v. The new run would come in the top of the main panel. There's 1/2-3/4" of bare wire showing from the main coming in as it enters the main breaker. I worry mostly about fishing a long bare ground wire over to the ground bus bar over and around the live main wires. The rest of the panel seems relatively tame even without turning off the breaker. It would be a very bad day if I touched one of the mains or worse shorted them out, maybe my last. Would be nice if I could figure out a way to shut it off outside. There's nothing but a thin metal ring with a plastic end keeping the meter box closed. The power company said electricians know how to shut it off. Not sure I believe the person on the phone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, fishing into a live panel takes a bit of care. I'd suggest two things that would it safer/easier. First would be instead of using NM-B with a bare ground you could use some conduit and green THHN. A better alternative is probably to turn of the main breaker and then cut the utility tag and remove your electrical meter. I didn't ask permission here but after we were done replacing the main service panel I just called them and asked them to come relock the meter and they came out, opened the meter base, tested the voltages and locked it back up without asking any questions.

Anyway, give it some thought as I suspect your fear will keep you safe and I would think residential wiring should be well within the skills of an EE :) Just need to make sure that your local jurisdiction allows DIY electrical work.
 
dm33 said:
I have a very healthy respect for 240v. The new run would come in the top of the main panel. There's 1/2-3/4" of bare wire showing from the main coming in as it enters the main breaker. I worry mostly about fishing a long bare ground wire over to the ground bus bar over and around the live main wires. The rest of the panel seems relatively tame even without turning off the breaker. It would be a very bad day if I touched one of the mains or worse shorted them out, maybe my last. Would be nice if I could figure out a way to shut it off outside. There's nothing but a thin metal ring with a plastic end keeping the meter box closed. The power company said electricians know how to shut it off. Not sure I believe the person on the phone.
Click to expand...

I just self-installed my rear mount plug VersiCharge and it was pretty easy, but I took all the proper cautions. You probably need to file for a permit to add a circuit to your panel (assuming your jurisdiction allows homeowners to get their own permit), and when you do that you can request electricity to your house be shut off by the power company. There may be an additional charge for them coming out, I don't know because my main breaker is outside next to my electric meter, not in my panel so it was very easy for me to shut off power to the entire panel.

If I had to do it again I'd probably run 6/3 plus ground wire and a 50a breaker instead of 8/3 and a 40a. The reason would be for future compatibility if I decide to get an EV that has a 10 kW charger. For now 7.2 kW is plenty and it should only cost me about $50 and 30 minutes or so of wiring to upgrade since I only needed about 9 ft of wire to get from my panel to the outlet.
 
Maybe we didn't take quite as many precautions. We wired up the outlet, put it where we wanted it in the drywall (and also screwed it onto the side of a stud), ran the wire from the plug up into the bottom of the breaker box, connected the wire to the double 40amp breakers, then just plugged the breaker into the empty slots of the box and turned the breaker on. We didn't even turn off the main breaker to do it. In my case the plug is only one stud away from the breaker box in my garage. I imagine it gets trickier the farther away the breaker box is from where you want the charger to be, but that doesn't have as much to do with electrical work.
 
CmdrThor said:
dm33 said:
If I had to do it again I'd probably run 6/3 plus ground wire and a 50a breaker instead of 8/3 and a 40a. The reason would be for future compatibility if I decide to get an EV that has a 10 kW charger. For now 7.2 kW is plenty and it should only cost me about $50 and 30 minutes or so of wiring to upgrade since I only needed about 9 ft of wire to get from my panel to the outlet.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I'm confused about 8/3 vs 8/2. The Siemens Versicharge use a 6-50 plug which is a 3 wire plug, hot, hot, ground. So it seems that 8/2 (+ ground) is all that can be used. Not sure what you'd do with the extra wire in a 8/3. I think somewhere in the code the white wire needs to be colored black at the outlet, but otherwise should be the proper wire from my understanding. Would be nice to find the section in the code. NEC 2011 is available online.

I'm confused because I received an estimate from an electrician that specified 8/3 and made me wonder about their credibility. My area does allow DIY but the permit process is extra onerous and none of the electricians I've spoken (3) with even remotely planned to get a permit and inspection.
 
CmdrThor said:
dm33 said:
I have a very healthy respect for 240v. The new run would come in the top of the main panel. There's 1/2-3/4" of bare wire showing from the main coming in as it enters the main breaker. I worry mostly about fishing a long bare ground wire over to the ground bus bar over and around the live main wires. The rest of the panel seems relatively tame even without turning off the breaker. It would be a very bad day if I touched one of the mains or worse shorted them out, maybe my last. Would be nice if I could figure out a way to shut it off outside. There's nothing but a thin metal ring with a plastic end keeping the meter box closed. The power company said electricians know how to shut it off. Not sure I believe the person on the phone.
Click to expand...

I just self-installed my rear mount plug VersiCharge and it was pretty easy, but I took all the proper cautions. You probably need to file for a permit to add a circuit to your panel (assuming your jurisdiction allows homeowners to get their own permit), and when you do that you can request electricity to your house be shut off by the power company. There may be an additional charge for them coming out, I don't know because my main breaker is outside next to my electric meter, not in my panel so it was very easy for me to shut off power to the entire panel.

If I had to do it again I'd probably run 6/3 plus ground wire and a 50a breaker instead of 8/3 and a 40a. The reason would be for future compatibility if I decide to get an EV that has a 10 kW charger. For now 7.2 kW is plenty and it should only cost me about $50 and 30 minutes or so of wiring to upgrade since I only needed about 9 ft of wire to get from my panel to the outlet.
Click to expand...
Companies such as AeroVironment insist you install a 40A breaker (meaning you HAVE to stick with 8 AWG wiring). I'm in process of installing my 30A EVSE, and really wanted to install a 50A circuit with a 14-50 outlet/plug combo, but looks like I need to stick with a 40A circuit unless I feel like running a subpanel (which I don't).
 

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