Not everyone believes in Europe.
Hey Jim - do you believe in Chicago? Do you believe in Europe?
(sorry... I should have asked first...)
Could you provide something more detailed?jimbennett wrote:
Here is analysis of the requirements to build a leaf. Discuss
Not sure where the extra 16,000 pounds of Co2 would come from, since an electric car has generally LESS parts than gasoline car.When an electric car rolls off the production line, it has already been responsible for 30,000 pounds of carbon-dioxide emission. The amount for making a conventional car: 14,000 pounds.
So there is a 6 ounce difference per mile. That means after a mere 16,000 x 16/6 = 42,666 miles the EV would draw even, not after 80,000. Even with his silly claim of an EV starting out with 16,000 extra pounds of CO2, over the lifetime of a car, e.g. a 100,000 miles, EVs would still come out ahead 21,750 pounds.Thus, the life-cycle analysis shows that for every mile driven, the average electric car indirectly emits about six ounces of carbon-dioxide. This is still a lot better than a similar-size conventional car, which emits about 12 ounces per mile.
klapauzius wrote:Could you provide something more detailed?jimbennett wrote:
Here is analysis of the requirements to build a leaf. Discuss
Besides the numbers in the article itself dont add up:
Lets assume that Lomborg is right andNot sure where the extra 16,000 pounds of Co2 would come from, since an electric car has generally LESS parts thanWhen an electric car rolls off the production line, it has already been responsible for 30,000 pounds of carbon-dioxide emission. The amount for making a conventional car: 14,000 pounds.
gasoline car.
According to this source http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integra ... 303na1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
its 12.5 kg (27 lb) CO2 per kg (2.2 lb)of Battery. The leaf battery is ~ 648 lb, so that would amount to ~ 8,000 lb of CO2 extra for the battery.
Do you think it is realistic that the manufacturing of a battery would amount to MORE emission than making a whole gasoline car?
But lets take him at face value and assume the EV starts with 16000 pounds overhead .
As Lomborg in that article further goes on:
So there is a 6 ounce difference per mile. That means after a mere 16,000 x 16/6 = 42,666 miles the EV would draw even, not after 80,000. Even with his silly claim of an EV starting out with 16,000 extra pounds of CO2, over the lifetime of a car, e.g. a 100,000 miles, EVs would still come out ahead 21,750 pounds.Thus, the life-cycle analysis shows that for every mile driven, the average electric car indirectly emits about six ounces of carbon-dioxide. This is still a lot better than a similar-size conventional car, which emits about 12 ounces per mile.
Anyway, 42,000 or 80,0000, that's just a factor of 2 off, so this guy has already demonstrated how "precise" his statements are.
I am sure he is a trustworthy source.
Maybe he just confused the amount of CO2 for making an EV with that of making a gasoline car? After all twice as much or half as much don't matter to him.
Finally, 6 ounces per mile equals 106 g C02 per Km. If you assume that the LEAF gets on average 6.4 km / kWH this would imply that the average CO2 amount to produce one kWH is 680 g. Only coal or oil produce that much Co2 and the US power mix is not 100 % oil and coal. The US average is 618 g/kWH, and sinking.
Admittedly, being off by 10% is not a big deal for someone who thinks 2 times more is the same ballpark.
In WA, the amount of CO2 going into one kWH is just 163 g, about 4 times lower than Mr. Lomborg estimates.
The article you linked does not provide a detailed analysis, but just throws around some numbers, apparently not grounded in any facts or research. If you want to reconfirm your preformed opinions, this might work, but if you want to know the truth, not so much.
AndyH wrote: I strongly recommend you do a bit of research before throwing rocks - you just hit yourself in the head. Again.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/i ... e-refugees
http://www.relocate-ak.org/2012/anthc-c ... ty-health/
One degree? Maybe you ought to step away from the keyboard for a bit and meditate on the meaning of 'average'. While you're there, consider the definition of 'permafrost', then ask yourself how one degree could be melting something that used to be considered 'permanently frozen'. I'll give you a hint - it's much more than one degree warmer in the Arctic.
I'm sure the 700 souls lost in Chicago in 1995 will feel much better now that you've explained that heat isn't an issue for humans. Maybe they'll come back? No?
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books ... 41018.html
I am assuming you would be happy to abandon a home you owned and lose your investment?jimbennett wrote:If you read your own articles, you will find the Alaskan village has to move 9 miles!!
Right - only 9 miles. That's a sales tactic - trivialize objections. The problem with your tunnel vision is that you keep ignoring the fact that PERMAFROST, by definition, should not be melting...jimbennett wrote:
If you read your own articles, you will find the Alaskan village has to move 9 miles!! Any more thoughts on the Dust Bowl?
Any measurable increase in methane from the Arctic yet, or is this more fear mongering?
As for cold deaths, check out this.
100,000 miles is optimistic, although in moderate climates, doable, maybe with just a module replacement here or there. Even so, the battery, after serving its automotive purpose, can still be used for years as storage device.jimbennett wrote: Admittedly, I don't have numbers for this. I would think if the benefit is so clear, it wouldn't be difficult to get the information from the manufacturers. Does anyone yet know how long the batteries will last? 100,000 miles seems optimistic. Other threads speak to a degradation issue for the battery pack.