Have you brodered your LEAF? (Mileage from VLB to Turtle)

Have you intentionally brodered your LEAF?
Have you accidentally turtled your LEAF?

***Intentional or not, please post details on how far you went from VLB to Turtle Mode***

Here is my experience:

Model: 2012 LEAF SL
Odometer: 12K
Battery Age: 16 Months / 12 bars

Intentional Broder 1 (Flat Road in 75F weather)
Date: 4/13/13
Mode: Eco
Speed: under 35 MPH
VLB to Turtle - 10.7 miles
Turtle to dead - 0.3 miles
Total Miles: 82.6

Intentional Broder 2 (Flat Road in 75F weather)
Date: 4/17/13
Mode: Eco
Speed: under 25 MPH
VLB to Turtle - 10.4 miles
Turtle to dead - 0.2 miles
Total Miles: 88.7

My overall average for both trips was 5.1 M/KWH. I did not reset the M/KWH meter for just the VLB part of the trip.


broder (verb) - to purposely or with willful ignorance run down the battery pack of an electric vehicle to the point that it no longer moves the vehicle.
Note: This is an extreme form of turtling an electric vehicle that is either a planned act or involves extreme negligence or outright idiocy to accomplish.

This is useful information, to know that VLB to turtle is around 10 miles. However, doesn't it put a lot of wear & team on the battery to run it so far down? I would think you would want to avoid it...

electrifeyed said:

This is useful information, to know that VLB to turtle is around 10 miles. However, doesn't it put a lot of wear & team on the battery to run it so far down? I would think you would want to avoid it...

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Nissan has built in safeguards preventing the battery from completely discharing. I would not recommend anyone routinely turtle their LEAF.
Based on all the data collected from the LEAFs with premature battery aging, the only two significant factors are high ambient temperature (over 110F) and high mileage (over 16K miles a year)

I wish this post was available last night as I put 74.5 round trip miles on the leaf going up into our local mountain range. with 5 miles of available range in eco remaining and 6.8 miles to get home I chickened out and decided to charge at a friends house for an hour rather than risking all of the old conservatives saying " I told you that car was stupid" when they saw it on the side of the road. I believe now that I totaly could have made it!

mortisier said:

I wish this post was available last night as I put 74.5 round trip miles on the leaf going up into our local mountain range. with 5 miles of available range in eco remaining and 6.8 miles to get home I chickened out and decided to charge at a friends house for an hour rather than risking all of the old conservatives saying " I told you that car was stupid" when they saw it on the side of the road. I believe now that I totaly could have made it!

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Keep a copy of Tony's LEAF Range chart in the car at all times!

If you intend to play in the shallow end, it's a good idea to charge to 100% occasionally to assist in cell balancing. I learned this the hard way in January, when I stretched the range but hadn't rebalanced in a couple of months. Things were going long fine until I got partway into the last battery bar, then the indicated miles started dropping with alacrity. I slowed down and made it home without seeing the turtle, but lesson learned. You need a balanced pack before you can trust the last few percent of battery charge.

spike09 said:

mortisier said:

I wish this post was available last night as I put 74.5 round trip miles on the leaf going up into our local mountain range. with 5 miles of available range in eco remaining and 6.8 miles to get home I chickened out and decided to charge at a friends house for an hour rather than risking all of the old conservatives saying " I told you that car was stupid" when they saw it on the side of the road. I believe now that I totaly could have made it!

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Keep a copy of Tony's LEAF Range chart in the car at all times!

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I have one on my phone but where I live there are simply to many hills for it to be accurate.

mortisier said:

I wish this post was available last night as I put 74.5 round trip miles on the leaf going up into our local mountain range. with 5 miles of available range in eco remaining and 6.8 miles to get home I chickened out and decided to charge at a friends house for an hour rather than risking all of the old conservatives saying " I told you that car was stupid" when they saw it on the side of the road. I believe now that I totaly could have made it!

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Yes, you would have made it. Just slow down to 30-35 mph (in town) and you should have about 10 mi. Here's mine (and at about 30 F): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7634&start=60#p243033

mortisier said:

spike09 said:

mortisier said:

I wish this post was available last night as I put 74.5 round trip miles on the leaf going up into our local mountain range. with 5 miles of available range in eco remaining and 6.8 miles to get home I chickened out and decided to charge at a friends house for an hour rather than risking all of the old conservatives saying " I told you that car was stupid" when they saw it on the side of the road. I believe now that I totaly could have made it!

Click to expand...

Keep a copy of Tony's LEAF Range chart in the car at all times!

Click to expand...

I have one on my phone but where I live there are simply to many hills for it to be accurate.

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If you merely use the dash economy gauge (miles/kWh), then whatever hills you are driving will be reflected. Actually, so will standing rain, wind, heater use, etc.

So, if your driving is producing 4 miles per kWh, and those same conditions prevail, you will still get the same range as a car driving 65mph down a level, no wind, dry road with no heater.

Also, the amount of energy usable at LBW and VLB is the same; 3.1kWh and 1.3kWh respectively.

So, your economy multiplied by 3.1 or 1.3 will give you the range remaining.

4 * 3.1 = 12.4 miles (LBW)
4 * 1.3 = 5.2 miles (VLB)

Yes, I have brodered my EVs many times !

TonyWilliams said:

Also, the amount of energy usable at LBW and VLB is the same; 3.1kWh and 1.3kWh respectively.

So, your economy multiplied by 3.1 or 1.3 will give you the range remaining.

4 * 3.1 = 12.4 miles (LBW)
4 * 1.3 = 5.2 miles (VLB)

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Spike's 10+ miles from VLB suggests some wicked good economy at "under 25/35". 8 mi/kWh?

I know I slow down & turn off all my accessories when I hit VLB :shock:

Haven't turtled yet, but eventually plan to. But with all of my increased spring time range I plan to join the 100+ mile club first!

Philip

LTLFTcomposite said:

TonyWilliams said:

Also, the amount of energy usable at LBW and VLB is the same; 3.1kWh and 1.3kWh respectively.

So, your economy multiplied by 3.1 or 1.3 will give you the range remaining.

4 * 3.1 = 12.4 miles (LBW)
4 * 1.3 = 5.2 miles (VLB)

Click to expand...

Spike's 10+ miles from VLB suggests some wicked good economy at "under 25/35". 8 mi/kWh?

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Yes, go look at the range chart!! It can be done (I've done it, also).

I don't think I would expect more than 4-7 miles from VLB to turtle. Here are my results:

ELROY said:

I don't think I would expect more than 4-7 miles from VLB to turtle.

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It's not much of a guess... Again, there is 1.3kWh usable at VLB, even with your experiences; the variable is the economy (rate of consumption).

The LEAF can absolutely do over 8 miles per kWh economy at 10-15 mph, which equals 8 * 1.3 = 10.4 miles. Yes, of course you can get less, as you have. The variable is how it is driven and the resultant economy.

At 65 mph on level, dry, no wind roadways with no heater will provide 4 * 1.3 = 5.2 miles.

At the 3.5 miles per kWh economy from your chart will result in 3.5 * 4.55 miles.

Like always, these figures are based on a balanced pack. All this data has been on the Range Chart since summer 2011.

LTLFTcomposite said:

TonyWilliams said:

Also, the amount of energy usable at LBW and VLB is the same; 3.1kWh and 1.3kWh respectively.

So, your economy multiplied by 3.1 or 1.3 will give you the range remaining.

4 * 3.1 = 12.4 miles (LBW)
4 * 1.3 = 5.2 miles (VLB)

Click to expand...

Spike's 10+ miles from VLB suggests some wicked good economy at "under 25/35". 8 mi/kWh?

Click to expand...

I have gone 100 miles on a charge 3 times already! Cruise control really helps but I wish it would turn on at lower than 25mph so I can attempt 100KM on a single charge.

spike09 said:

... so I can attempt 100KM on a single charge.

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200kM !!!

It's a rare club, indeed.

We've got 200 mile club on the Rav4 forum. You would think it would be easy, since it "only" requires 4.8 miles per kWh (200 / 41.8kWh usable = 4.8).

Nobody has even come close.

Got to see the turtle today on my 2013 SL! Low battery was at 18% capacity, very low battery at 8% capacity. 11 miles from VLB to turtle (driving very slowly back and forth near my house for the last 5 miles or so!). My impression is that I probably got about as far on the 8% of capacity from VLB to turtle as I would expect to get on 8% of capacity. That is, if driving normally I believe I could have gotten about 7 miles, possibly 8. (Started the day with an 80% charge and got 73 miles total before turtle).

After the first few weeks of ownership, back in 2011, I intentionally Brodered mine to see what the limits were. After driving at high speed on a long freeway jaunt, I exited with 4 miles remaining on the GoM. Shortly after that, the GoM went to flashing ---. I drove around the block in circles, which was an additional 10 miles and took forever until I had the power begin reducing and the turtle icon. I was able to drive home (about 1/4 mile) and then I ran the defrost at 90 degrees for about 10 minutes until it finally gave up the ghost and opened the main contactor.

The moral of the story is that there's usually way more power remaining than the GoM would have you believe!

With careful driving, I've done a round-trip to Pt. Reyes, which has a good amount of highway. About 130 miles.

-Phil

Ingineer said:

After the first few weeks of ownership, back in 2011, I intentionally Brodered mine to see what the limits were. After driving at high speed on a long freeway jaunt, I exited with 4 miles remaining on the GoM. Shortly after that, the GoM went to flashing ---. I drove around the block in circles, which was an additional 10 miles and took forever until I had the power begin reducing and the turtle icon. I was able to drive home (about 1/4 mile) and then I ran the defrost at 90 degrees for about 10 minutes until it finally gave up the ghost and opened the main contactor.

The moral of the story is that there's usually way more power remaining than the GoM would have you believe!

With careful driving, I've done a round-trip to Pt. Reyes, which has a good amount of highway. About 130 miles.

-Phil

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The first time I ever ran down the battery was when I accidentally left the car on with the A/C running while I was at work. I arrived to work with at least enough for my 10 mile return trip home but simply forgot to turn off the car. By the time I got out of work 8 hours later the car was so completely dead that I had to jump start the 12V battery. Thankfully the parking lot is next to the office so I was able to charge up on 120V from an outlet in the hallway. I went back into the office, worked for a few hours to calm myself down and then went home.

My problem stems from the fact it is quicker to only push the Power button to turn off the car as opposed to first putting the car into park then push the Power button. I have so gotten in the habit of only using the power button to turn off the car that I have even forgot to do that. Lucky I have very quick reflexes and have not bumped into anything while the car lunges forward when I take my foot off the brake.

Is there anyway to modify the LEAF to remove this creep function? Florida is flat so I am not worried about the car rolling forward or backwards.

spike09 said:

The first time I ever ran down the battery was when I accidentally left the car on with the A/C running while I was at work. I arrived to work with at least enough for my 10 mile return trip home but simply forgot to turn off the car. By the time I got out of work 8 hours later the car was so completely dead that I had to jump start the 12V battery. Thankfully the parking lot is next to the office so I was able to charge up on 120V from an outlet in the hallway. I went back into the office, worked for a few hours to calm myself down and then went home.

My problem stems from the fact it is quicker to only push the Power button to turn off the car as opposed to first putting the car into park then push the Power button. I have so gotten in the habit of only using the power button to turn off the car that I have even forgot to do that. Lucky I have very quick reflexes and have not bumped into anything while the car lunges forward when I take my foot off the brake.

Is there anyway to modify the LEAF to remove this creep function? Florida is flat so I am not worried about the car rolling forward or backwards.

Click to expand...

Yes, as soon as the pack gets too low, it opens the main contactor. This removes power to the DC-DC converter, so the 12V is now "on it's own"! The rest of the car stays "on", including the fan in the climate control, so it wouldn't take long at all to drop the 12V to a critical level.

I rarely press park either, I just hit power. I've never once accidentally left it on, but I have accidentally "double bumped" the power button. What happens is a few seconds later the head unit lights back up (accessory mode). If you were quick to exit the car, you may not notice this and run your 12V down.

Nissan should include code to automatically shut power off in the event of a low battery and the car is not in ready. Shut it down with enough left that you can still boot it up again.

Also, it would be simple to send you a text message via carwings in the event the car is left in ready mode with no fob in the car (the car knows this). For that matter sending you a text if the 12V is low would be handy too. I'm not surprised they didn't do things like this initially in the rush to get the 2011 LEAF to market, but why wasn't it added for 2013?

-Phil