74 miles on a single charge?

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Tony Williams

...If the roads are dry and "uncontanimated" with snow, and the heater is off, the LEAF will get about 4 miles/kWh at 65mph regardless of the temperature on a level, no wind roadway...

DaveinOlyWA Tony...this entire conversation started with the bolded text you put out and i will say it now and forever is total Bullshit...

Nightrider ...I have been getting 5.2 m/kwh at 60 mph on I-95 a lot lately, on flat roads without climate control....

Nightrider, do you have a recent report on your total battery capacity from “100"%” to VLBW?

The CarWings kWh report number is preferable, but you can use the less accurate nav screen or dash m/kWh calculation to get this number, if you must.

I expect the reason so many posters on this and other threads are seeing widely varying dash m/kWh reports is probably because those reports are inaccurate, and you are only continuing to waste your time when you rely on this data source.

The dash m/kWh evidently reflect a constant error of ~2.5%, on every LEAF. You can easily avoid that error just by using the nav screen m/kWh report (if you have a nav screen).

But if the kWh use report your LEAF is using to calculate both those numbers is also incorrect, you have a real garbage in/garbage out data problem.

I believe my LEAF has a very significant error in its kWh use reports, as determined by range tests, and also to some extent, by recharge capacity tests.

From the wildly varying MNL posts on dash m/kWh, I would be surprised if many other LEAFs did not have a kWh report error,
just as mine does, though probably of varying severity.

To see this kWh reporting error, you need a history of controlled range tests, or of accurate recharge capacity tests, to show that any decrease in your battery capacity is due to this error, and not due to an actual decrease in available battery capacity.

I first noticed, and posted about this error last Summer, when my CW m/kWh (whose 2.5 % odometer error error is replicated by the dash/kWh) first showed a large and unexplained increase of m/kWh, from 4.9 to 5.7, based on the kWh use report reduction from 18.7 to 16.8.

...I think that my range tests may indicate that whatever method my LEAF uses to calculate kWh, is variable, and has been significantly understating the recent amounts of kWh use, and has probably increasingly inflated all my m/kWh reports, from the dash, nav screen, and CW.

And of course, this could reflect with Tick Tocks observations of variable “gid” Wh values. Gids with higher Wh content could lower the calculated kWh numbers, and raise all the m/kWh results.

Maybe this is what I am seeing, from yesterdays range test. I tried to replicate as accurately as possible, my earliest range test,of almost a year, and almost 10,000 miles ago, to test this hypothesis.

I chose a day with very close to the original temperature condition, and drove the exact same route over the first 87 miles of the trip, using the same mode (eco) and used my original trip logs to closely replicate the same elapsed times for each of the three (same distance) legs of the trip.

The results from 8/30/12 were:

97.3 miles to VLB, 98.9 miles in total, by the odometer.

CW: 96.5 (~2.5% under-report) total miles, at 5.7 m/kWh, 16.8 kWh used from 100% to about the same capacity level, slightly past VLBW.

Compare this test with my first test on 9/7/11:

91.5 miles to VLB, 93.4 in total, by the odometer

CW: 91.1 (~2.5% under-report) total miles, at 4.9 m/kWh, 18.7 kWh used from 100% to about the same capacity level, slightly past VLBW.

I do not believe that the slight increase in range over the last year reflects any increase in battery capacity. On the contrary, I expect that my total capacity ( though maybe not the amount of kWh that the BMS is allowing me to access) has declined by an undetermined amount, but it cannot be detected due to the “noise” of uncontrolled variables in a range test....

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Below is a summary of the CW reported battery capacity since Summer of 2011.

I only began regularly testing all the way to VLBW on this route, after the large and unexplained "phantom" loss of capacity show edup, in the Spring of 2011.

Below is how Carwings has reported the total energy use from "100%" to ~VLBW on my warm climate LEAF two years from the factory and with ~16,000 miles on the odometer.

While the reported kWh use has dropped quite a bit, My LEAF has displayed no significant loss of range from my first test, to most recent, on range tests of 95-113 miles, when corrected for all test variables, including speed, temperature both when charging and when driving, and my own driving efficiency (as reflected in the regen kWh reported by CarWings).

Of course my battery has lost capacity in the last 18 months, it just not yet a large enough loss to show up clearly in a range test, and is, IMO, nearly certainly far less than the kWh use results below, showing capacity loss approaching 15% just over the last 18 months (when adjusted for battery temperature) would indicate:

All charges prior to testing were to “80%", battery allowed to return to ambient temperature, and then charged @ 16 A 240 V to “100%”, two to three hours before range/capacity test begins, and then left plugged into the EVSE until departure.

IMO The distance driven at the point where the battery temp bars increased, when that has occurred, is useful data as to the relative battery temp and temperature the (temperature variable) battery capacity when the "100%" charge was completed.

9/7/11 18.7 kWh from "100%" to VLBW, 6 dash battery temp bars constant (as recalled later)

5/10 12 17.2 kWh, 5 to 6 temp bars ~mile 73

5/31/12 17.5 kWh, 5 to 6 temp bars ~mile 5

6/17/12 17.5 kWh, 6 temp bars constant

8/18/12 17.0 kWh, 6 temp bars constant

8/30/12 16.8 kWh, 6 temp bars constant

9/08/12 16.7 kWh, 5 to 6 temp bars ~ 4.6 miles

10/1/12 16.6 kWh, 6 temp bars constant

11/3/12 16.2 kwh, 4 to 5 temp bars ~mile 14

1/31 15.7 kWh, 4 to 5 temp bars ~mile 24

2/16/13 15.8 kWh, 4 to 5 temp bars ~mile 18

3/1/13 15.6 kWh, 4 to 5 temp bars ~mile 18

3/13/13 16.0 kWh, 5 bars temp constant


I think it is nearly certain, that the LEAF "gauge error" that has shown up in premature battery capacity bar loss and Wh/gid error in other LEAFs is also displaying itself in the dash and nav screen m/kWh, and also in the (more accurate) CarWings kWh use reports, from my LEAF, as I have posted above.

IMO, any LEAFer who can learn to use CarWings, may see the same sort of results I have, and also be able to largely differentiate any range loss due to real battery capacity loss, from their LEAF's questionable kWh use reports, as I believe I have been able to do.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11591&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Back to the immediate question of how range and battery capacity vary with both battery temperature while charging and driving temperature, After the hundreds of comparisons of range and capacity variations with temperature I have made since, the results I got 18 months ago still seem close to correct, though I now believe all test results are less certain and accurate since the kWh reports you need to use for this test, are just as suspect as when you use them for a range test.

On 11/8 (11) I attempted to replicate the route and conditions of an earlier trip, which I had kept careful notes of, to try to see what sort of range reduction is caused by reduced m/kWh due to lower temperatures, and what proportion of this reduction is due to reduced battery capacity. I did this on a dry day with windows up, without using the heater or windshield wipers. I believe that I got about 5% reduction in battery capacity, and a slightly larger decrease in driving efficiency (m/kWh) resulting in a total range reduction of over 10%. This is the same trip I made several times over the summer, and posted details of on this thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

..My trip ... was 87.6 miles by odometer (85.5 miles by CarWings-see other thread for info on this 2.5% discrepancy) with between 5,000 and 5,500 ft. of total ascent and descent, carwings reports 16.8 kWh consumed and 5.1 m/kWh. I believe my total battery capacity after charging to 100%, was about 20.4 kWh.

When I made the (almost) identical drive on 11/8 of 88 miles (85.9 as reported by CW) CW reported 17.6 kWh consumed and 4.9 m/kWh. I believe my total battery capacity when I left home with a 100% charge was probably close to 19.4 kWh...

...this approximately 40 degree decrease in temp when charging, and 50 degree reduction when driving, resulted in about 10% recorded range reduction...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6701&start=60" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IOW, many subsequent tests seem to indicate that my LEAF’s kWh use report error varied very little between these two trips, which were driven only ~ 2 months apart.

If you want to test for these temperature variables yourself, you will need to use the Carwings reports for the same reason you need them for any other accurate range test, to get the regen kWh report to check for driver efficiency, and the kWh use data before it’s accuracy is reduced by the m/kwh dash and nav screen displays.
 
If Night gets 5.2m/kW at 60mph, then to check the dash's accuracy, you just need to multiply by 21 if a 100% charge and see if the total miles match. Remember, 60mph is really 58 actual.
I know for a fact that my dash gauge was extremely accurate and CWs was always inaccurate and gave inflated numbers.
 
LEAFfan said:
...I know for a fact that my dash gauge was extremely accurate and CWs was always inaccurate and gave inflated numbers...

AFAIK, everyone who has had Carwings operating correctly, either after the NTB11-041 update for the early LEAFs,

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or from delivery for later cars, has reported the same experience I have for over 18 months now, as explained below:


Here are my suggestions, for you and other CW users.

All 2011-2 LEAFs, AFAIK, have reported the same Carwings odometer and Dash m/kWh error of consistently under-reporting by ~2.5%.

So if your CW miles driven is ~2.5% lower than your dash odometer miles, and your dash m/kWh is showing ~2.5% less than your nav screen m/kWh (0.1 m/kWh lower below ~6 m/kWh, and 0.2 m/kWh lower when you are getting over ~6 m/kWh) this is "normal" for 2011-2012 LEAFs.

Hopefully, Nissan has fixed this error in the 2013s. Any readers have a CW equipped 2013? Please check and report back.

If you are "missing" more miles than this, go to the "rate simulation" page at the CW site.

Here, each "trip" (each start/stop cycle) will be individually reported. Make sure that each of the "trips"you have made each day, is showing up. Each trip will show the same ~2.5% under-report of miles driven as your daily total, and each m/kWh report there will match your dash (if you reset it) for the corresponding trip, again showing the same ~2.5% under-report error.

The Dash, nav screen and CW m/kWh all are mathematically "correct" as a function of the total kWh use reported by CW for every trip, day, or months driving.

It's just that the dash uses the same ~2.5% understated miles to make its calculation of m/kWh as CW does, while the nav screen is always accurate as a function of reported kWh use, as it uses the dash odometer miles, for the m/kWh calculation.

Got it?

BTW, while every LEAF driver, AFAIK, has reported the dash odometer as very close to correct, while using stock tires and wheels, IMO it wouldn't hurt to confirm your dash odometer is correct, by checking with another source, such as Google maps.

Now back to the "rate simulation" page, If you are missing any "trips", that you made on any given day, and every driver is pushing "accept" every time, please report back.

I have missed only a couple of "trips" in the ~12,000 miles since I've been using Carwings (since an update corrected errors in the early LEAFs) so I believe they probably have all been due to operator error on my part, as I make a very quick stab at the screen, and I think I probably just missed "accept" a couple of times.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11769" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you, "LEAFfan", or anyone else has ever actually experienced anything different from CarWings than as described above, please report exactly what it is you are seeing.
 
N1ghtrider said:
Tony and others. I have been getting 5.2 m/kwh at 60 mph on I-95 a lot lately, on flat roads without climate control. I usually drop down to 5.0 with the a/c on.

That's what you read on the dash after resetting it?

I have run enough tests on the LEAF to know you're NOT going 5.2 miles/kWh at 60mph. That's a simple matter of physics and aerodynamics. At 62 mph ground speed, over and over, I have personally witnessed 4.0 miles per kWh on many different cars, all years 2011 - 2013, including my two LEAFs.

So, there just isn't any physical way that your car gets a 30% better economy at 58-60mph. I do hope everybody reading this understands that simple point.

This isn't some CarWings thing, right? Or, you didn't reset the dash economy meter? Certainly, there's no question in my mind that there is a variation between dash economy meters, and I guess it's possible to be this far off, but I haven't seen that (and I've seen a LOT of LEAF cars!!!).

How about this; you top off the LEAF and take a 60mph drive down those perfectly flat Florida freeways. Reset trip odometer. Reset the dash economy meter when the car reaches 60mph indicated. Drive all the way to LBW or VLB.

Note miles driven and economy. If you can get a Gidmeter, that would sure help.

Thanks,

Tony
 
TonyWilliams said:
N1ghtrider said:
Tony and others. I have been getting 5.2 m/kwh at 60 mph on I-95 a lot lately, on flat roads without climate control. I usually drop down to 5.0 with the a/c on.

That's what you read on the dash after resetting it?

I have run enough tests on the LEAF to know you're NOT going 5.2 miles/kWh at 60mph. That's a simple matter of physics and aerodynamics. At 62 mph ground speed, over and over, I have personally witnessed 4.0 miles per kWh on many different cars, all years 2011 - 2013, including my two LEAFs...

Well, this appears to be a case of Tonamnesia, as variations in dash m/kWh of between 3.7 and 4.4 were actually reported (or misreported, as the case may be) by Tony for the Phoenix test LEAFs:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"TonyWilliams"So, there just isn't any physical way that your car gets a 30% better economy at 58-60mph. I do hope everybody ready this understands that simple point.

Tony did get that right.

A pity, IMO, that someone made the foolish decision to not record the CarWings reports from each of those Phoenix test LEAFs, so that we will never have a clear view of the reported battery capacity and efficiency from each of those LEAFs, so we could have seen where those (almost certain, IMO) errors in the dash m/kWh reports came from.
 
edatoakrun said:
Well, this appears to be a case of Tonamnesia, as variations in dash m/kWh of between 3.7 and 4.4 were actually reported (or misreported, as the case may be) by Tony for the Phoenix test LEAFs:

Ya, it's a huge government plot, Ed. All my decades of US government service have served me well, but you're just too crafty.

As I stated and have reported numerous times, even in this thread, these meters are a LONG way from perfect. Like normal, you bring nothing to the issue.

3.7 - 4.4 is predominately 4.0. As a matter of fact, most cars hit much closer to the 4.0 than the outliers.
 
TonyWilliams said:
N1ghtrider said:
Tony and others. I have been getting 5.2 m/kwh at 60 mph on I-95 a lot lately, on flat roads without climate control. I usually drop down to 5.0 with the a/c on.

That's what you read on the dash after resetting it?

This isn't some CarWings thing, right? Or, you didn't reset the dash economy meter?Tony

Tony: That is the Carwings number; not from the dash.
 
N1ghtrider said:
TonyWilliams said:
N1ghtrider said:
Tony and others. I have been getting 5.2 m/kwh at 60 mph on I-95 a lot lately, on flat roads without climate control. I usually drop down to 5.0 with the a/c on.

That's what you read on the dash after resetting it?

This isn't some CarWings thing, right? Or, you didn't reset the dash economy meter?Tony

Tony: That is the Carwings number; not from the dash.

Ok, I rest my case. Thanks for clarifying.
 
KJD said:
LEAFfan said:
I know for a fact that my dash gauge was extremely accurate and CWs was always inaccurate and gave inflated numbers.
+1

I suggest you take a look at my 3/25 post above to see why Carwings is a much more accurate source of energy use data than your dash gauges.

If you can't use use CarWings, you may find yourself just as incompetent as Tony Williams, and posting the same "total Bullshit" regarding LEAF range and battery capacity questions as he does.

FYI, below is a screen shot of my rate simulation page showing the last two range tests I posted on 3/25 above, showing energy use and regen for each "trip" (start/stop cycle) segment of the 3/1 and 3/13 range tests.

Only because I had the CW data from the earlier trip, could I add the short additional distance shown in trips two and three on 3/13, with the complete confidence that I would be able to make the final ~46 miles (over a mountain pass) and return home.


3-1-13to3-16-13CWERS_zps5ef2f953.png


For more info on the range test methodology, the roads, and the elevation profile, see:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
newownermnl
edatoakrun said:
If you can't use use CarWings, you may find yourself just as incompetent as Tony Williams, and posting the same "total Bullshit" regarding LEAF range and battery capacity questions as he does.
Nice, never miss an opportunity for an ad hominem attack.

edatoakrun said:
For more info on the range test methodology, the roads, and the elevation profile, see:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Many of the early LEAFs had skewed CarWings reporting, which I'm sure you are aware of. Yes, this can be addressed by a TSB, but it's not considered a mandatory update, and a number of owners had to put some effort into getting it. We don't know the 2013 trim sales mix, but judging by the posts here, a significant number of new LEAFs will be the stripper model without telematics. While the dash gauges are not perfect, as many regulars here will readily admit, we need to find a way to live with them and work with the results. CarWings can provide interesting complementary information, but I would not go as far dismiss dash instruments completely and insist that CarWings is the only way to go.
 
surfingslovak said:
newownermnl
edatoakrun said:
If you can't use use CarWings, you may find yourself just as incompetent as Tony Williams, and posting the same "total Bullshit" regarding LEAF range and battery capacity questions as he does.
Nice, never miss an opportunity for an ad hominem attack.

edatoakrun said:
For more info on the range test methodology, the roads, and the elevation profile, see:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Many of the early LEAFs had skewed CarWings reporting, which I'm sure you are aware of. Yes, this can be addressed by a TSB, but it's not considered a mandatory update, and a number of owners had to put some effort into getting it. We don't know the 2013 trim sales mix, but judging by the posts here, a significant number of new LEAFs will be the stripper model without telematics. While the dash gauges are not perfect, as many regulars here will readily admit, we need to find a way to live with them and work with the results. CarWings can provide interesting complementary information, but I would not go as far dismiss dash instruments completely and insist that CarWings is the only way to go.

logged into Carwings for first time since last Fall (or maybe Summer) and MTD have traveled 1857 miles (a bit short but it is delayed a few days) @ 5.6 miles/kwh which is quite frankly not even in the ballpark.

when i asked about the Carwings update a year or so ago, i was told that my VIN was not in the correct range. since i only need it for text alerts on charging status, i let it go.

P.S. must be the weather (about 65 and gorgeous today!) but I am ranked 22nd in the world for distance traveled but only 4th in the Pac NW... guess i didnt drive as much as i thought i did... ;)
 
surfingslovak said:
newownermnl
edatoakrun said:
If you can't use use CarWings, you may find yourself just as incompetent as Tony Williams, and posting the same "total Bullshit" regarding LEAF range and battery capacity questions as he does.
Nice, never miss an opportunity for an ad hominem attack.

edatoakrun said:
For more info on the range test methodology, the roads, and the elevation profile, see:
III
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Many of the early LEAFs had skewed CarWings reporting, which I'm sure you are aware of. Yes, this can be addressed by a TSB, but it's not considered a mandatory update, and a number of owners had to put some effort into getting it. We don't know the 2013 trim sales mix, but judging by the posts here, a significant number of new LEAFs will be the stripper model without telematics. While the dash gauges are not perfect, as many regulars here will readily admit, we need to find a way to live with them and work with the results. CarWings can provide interesting complementary information, but I would not go as far dismiss dash instruments completely and insist that CarWings is the only way to go.
Thanks George! That was very well put. Ed is the only one on here that likes CWs for delayed and erroneous data. I don't care for the.two day delay either. Again to Ed, MY m/kW h gauges have ALWAYS been extremely accurate and my BCM confirms it. I would never want to rely on delayed and inaccurate data from CWs.
 
edatoakrun said:
If you, "LEAFfan", or anyone else has ever actually experienced anything different from CarWings than as described above, please report exactly what it is you are seeing.
[multiquote]
Carwings is a much more accurate source of energy use data than your dash gauges.

Ed,
I have tried to follow your extensive and detailed arguments in multiple threads about using Carwings data to establish battery capacity loss, and I have to say I am totally confused about what you are trying to say. What element of the CW data is more accurate than the dash or nav figures regarding energy use efficiency, exactly, and why?

We have over 29,000 miles on our car, by the odometer. It has had all the firmware updates applicable to the VIN, and we have pushed "OK" religiously every day to allow Carwings to collect our data. Carwings reports that we have traveled a total of 27,927 miles, using 4417.3 kWh of energy in the process, for an average of 6.32 m/kWh over that period.

My nav system energy history has never been reset in that two years, and it reports an energy economy average of 4.5 m/kWh. My dashboard energy economy average was never reset until 27,000 miles (when I replaced the tires) and it read 4.4 m/kWh at that time. Since then, it is reporting 4.1 m/kWh average, which I attribute to the new Kumho Ecowing tires being less efficient over the last 2,000 miles.

We have a Blink charger installed in the garage on a separate TOU meter which has been used to charge the Leaf almost exclusively during the last 2 years. From our SDG&E billing, we have fairly complete records of our "from the wall" energy usage for this period. Even ignoring the small amount of opportunity charging we have done (which would probably cancel out the preheating/cooling we have done in the garage while not driving) the Leaf has consumed over 8,000 kWh from the wall in those 29,000 miles. Allowing for 90% charging efficiency (which seems to be the consensus from what I have read here), we have put at least 7200 kWh into the battery, which would indicate about 4 m/kWh average efficiency. If charging efficiency is actually higher or lower, that figure would have to be adjusted accordingly, but I would be surprised if it was off by more than .5 m/kWh.

So Ed, how do you explain the large discrepancy in these energy efficiency numbers reported by Carwings as compared to the dashboard, the nav, and the "from the wall" efficiency figures we have experienced with our car over an extended period of time? The definite outlier is the 6.32 m/kWh CW figure, and I do not understand how that can be touted as the "most accurate." It is fully 50% higher than the more realistic numbers from the dash, nav and FTW usage figures, which average 4.2 m/kWh. It appears to gain this higher efficiency by calculating an unrealistic savings from regeneration which is completely out of proportion to my real-world experience. Why is this a better or more accurate number to use in your battery capacity calculations? What am I missing?

Yesterday, our car drove ~70 miles by the odometer from 100% charge to below VLBW ("---" on the Guessometer, but no turtle mode), with most of those miles on the freeway at 65mph. Our car has all 12 capacity bars still showing, so I assume that we have not yet lost 15% capacity. If the car is really capable of 6 m/kWh efficiency, as Carwings reported for the trip, we used only 11.6kWh. Is that a realistic number to use to estimate the battery's capacity? That would indicate it has degraded almost 50% from the original 21.5 kWh (or whatever it was when new), and that I should have been able to drive 130 miles on a 100% charge when it was new, neither of which are realistic figures. I have never trusted those CW numbers, and don't understand why you do. How is it that the top ranking drivers achieve in excess of 20 m/kWh in my region? Do they only drive downhill or something?

TT
 
Tom, you do need NTB-11-041 applied to your car - applies to LEAFs built before 6/1/2011 with a VIN below 5518. Info on the saga in getting this applied to my car here which also has a bunch of other info on the details of the update: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no.

Since the update CARWINGs agrees with my instrument meter either exactly or within 0.1 mi/kWh every time I have checked.
 
Tom, they don't have to go downhill to get those ridiculous numbers. They can coast in N on flat terrain and while coasting, reset the mpkW and it will record very high numbers. Then they can either keep coasting to their destination or turn off the telematics before the number goes back to normal. By just coasting, I hit 62m/kW h on the dash, but I always leave the telematics on so fairly quickly it goes back to normal, 5.8-6.0.
 
drees said:
Tom, you do need NTB-11-041 applied to your car - applies to LEAFs built before 6/1/2011 with a VIN below 5518. Info on the saga in getting this applied to my car here which also has a bunch of other info on the details of the update: NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no.

Since the update CARWINGs agrees with my instrument meter either exactly or within 0.1 mi/kWh every time I have checked.
We asked them to do the 11-041 telematics update when we took the car in for the first battery check a year ago--apparently they didn't do it if it fixes the whacked CW data, which is still the same as it ever was. I'll have to check my version numbers on the diagnostics screen to see, I guess.

TT
 
surfingslovak said:
edatoakrun said:
If you can't use use CarWings, you may find yourself just as incompetent as Tony Williams, and posting the same "total Bullshit" regarding LEAF range and battery capacity questions as he does.
Nice, never miss an opportunity for an ad hominem attack.

It must really P.O. Mr. Ed to be so irrelevant. He just generally seems to be spirally into a "smoking hole" as we say in the plane business.

It's almost comical that he has picked little ole me to be his arch enemy!!! I think the boil on my ass will pop soon, though.
 
ttweed said:
...Ed,
I have tried to follow your extensive and detailed arguments in multiple threads about using Carwings data to establish battery capacity loss, and I have to say I am totally confused about what you are trying to say. What element of the CW data is more accurate than the dash or nav figures regarding energy use efficiency, exactly, and why?..


TT

First off, as others have noted, it looks like you (and several other of the recent commentators) never had your CW updated.

See the Xpost below for threads explaining what this means.

Since there is partial CW data from camasleaf's range test posted on that thread, I'll try to answer the rest of your questions above on another (on-topic) thread, using the CW and dash and navscreen m/kWh data from camasleaf's range tests and my own, as time permits. I can understand why it is confusing, and it may be nearly incomprehensible, if you do not have (more) accurate CW reports from your own LEAF to refer to.

Get the NTB11-041 update!


http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5582&start=540" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OK camasleaf, what you have inadvertently demonstrated, IMO, is how much less accurate your kWh use results from a range test will be if you do not have functional CW...

For other early 2011 LEAFers, please review the ancient history below, on why you need NTB11-041, and how Nissan has (apparently) made this update difficult to get.


As I posted earlier, Since I had the Carwings update done on 8/3(11), my Dash and Carwings miles/kWh numbers seem to match.

Even more interestingly, the daily Driving Records/electricity consumption now seem to accurately reflect the kWh delivered from my Modified L2, as best as I can calculate by recharge time.

Has anyone tried a 100% charge to Turtle discharge drive since having the update?

What total electricity consumption (kWh) did carwings report-and do you believe it to accurately reflect total battery capacity?

If you have a meter at the wall, what L2 charging efficiency percentage did it show for your recharge, using the Carwings energy consumption report?


My carwings energy numbers - CORRECT post NTB11-041 update

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


NTB-11-041 Telematics Connection Fix - dealer says no

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9195" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
We just recently received our '13 Leaf and had no experience with electric vehicles prior to this. The first week was very unnerving as we tried to understand why the range remaining seemed to be going down so much quicker than the distance we were going. We have now read many posts and have a better sense of how to get higher range but still question how we could ever get even 70 miles on a charge (driving in B and with Eco). I honestly would never want to go anywhere close to the range max in the first few weeks until you adjust to driving the vehicle.

Tell the dealership to bring the car to you or make sure you have your phone with you and the Nissan # to call if you don't make it home on that charge. Also, regarding any of the commercial charging stations around, at least in our area of North Carolina, they don't accept credit cards, you need a special "Charge Point" charging card that you order in advance.
 
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