74 miles on a single charge?

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You can probably do it, but...have a contingency plan. Locate any public charging available on your route, and plan ahead using Tony's range chart. Note how many bars you should have when you are passing public charging, and if you don't have as many bars as you calculated, or the miles per kWh you're getting is lower than you figured on, stop and charge the car! Even 30 min or and hour could easily make the difference between getting home or getting towed.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Again, on an apples to apples "everything the same" except the outside air temperature, the LEAF will get predominately the same economy. No, the economy won't likely be identical for the reasons stated above, but it won't be 25% less either.
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, the efficiency meter in the LEAF will indicate much lower efficiency in cold weather, even though it's not real.
 
In southern NH I find a trip of 50 miles of interstate at 65 mph and 15 miles rural averaging about 40 mph is cutting it close. This is with no heat and no A/C, although I did have the lights on. To be safe I'd suggest looking at non-interstate options. I've done 85 miles of non-interstate with a max of 55 mph and I took it easy the last 10 miles. That trip was with lights and wipers for part of the trip. Both trips were late-April/early-May. Bottom line, the slower you go the farther you, but it costs you time.
 
RegGuheert said:
TonyWilliams said:
Again, on an apples to apples "everything the same" except the outside air temperature, the LEAF will get predominately the same economy. No, the economy won't likely be identical for the reasons stated above, but it won't be 25% less either.
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, the efficiency meter in the LEAF will indicate much lower efficiency in cold weather, even though it's not real.

Well, we had those variations in Phoenix with cars all at the same (warm) temperature. But, yes, the temperature affects Gid count (value goes up with cold while the battery clearly does NOT have more capacity) as well as meters associated with that data.
 
Take it from a guy who does 72 miles everyday here in DFW. It can be easily done. Just find a truck, the bigger the better, but even a large SUV or pickup truck would do and draft behind it by about 3 car lengths. You can actually go at speeds excessive of 70+ mph and hit efficiency of 4.3. At that efficiency going 74 miles is piece of cake, of course without climate control ON.

Or as my favorite Kollywood actor, Rajnikanth, would say, 'jujubie'. :)
 
SaveOurPlanet said:
Hello everyone,

I already asked the following question in the Newbies section already, and there were no replies yet, I figured probably because the question was buried deeply in the rental car thread. So I hope it's ok that I post it here again, as it is the "range" subforum - otherwise, dear moderator, just delete this post. :)



It's 74 miles from the dealership in Massachusetts where I will rent the Leaf to my final destination. 50 miles of that is highway - the rest rural roads with maybe 35mph of a speed limit - will I be able to make it on a full charge, or do I have to stop along the way and top up? The dealership said the Nissan Leaf will be fully charged at pickup, and there also are no plans to drive around further for a while once arriving at the final destination, so it's okay to arrive with a nearly empty battery.

I read a lot about range, like Paul Scott gets 100 miles on a full charge, and there is the range chart here on the forum with also seems to indicate that the 74 miles are doable. Then again, there is this thread here "The Dealer told me not to buy a Leaf", and there people are saying it might even not be possible to do 80 miles in a day, even with recharging.

In my case, it will be June, so it's not going to be freezing. Still, maybe light AC use will be nice (which takes some extra energy, it can also be turned off for a while), and New England is a little hilly, which could cost some range, and the car will be loaded with 2 passengers, still eco mode can be permanently switched on - will 74 miles on a single full charge be possible?

Thanks for any replies,
best regards,
SaveOurPlanet


keep in mind, everything affects range so if its raining, slow down. extreme heat requiring extra A/C, slow it down, hills or elevation change, slow it down.

keep your highway speed at no more than 60 mph. the extra 10 minutes is nothing compared to the inconvenience of being a mile short of your destination.

FYI; i drive nearly that distance frequently. i travel to client locations for work and frequently take the company car which is a 56 mile RT from my home. add detours, meals, rides for co-workers, etc and I am at that range all the time.

I have a GID meter which allows me to extrapolate my range. I toss in a buffer (usually 15 GID) and adjust my speed to fit my needs. the SOC on the LEAF is supposed to be fairly accurate so I would google map your route for distance, then reset a trip meter and compute your distance after about 20 miles of your trip then adjust your speed. drive another 20 and recalculate your range and adjust accordingly.

there is a lot of resistance for people driving slower than the posted maximum speed and that is simply sad. I strongly suggest you reduce your level of entitlement if a lower speed is necessary. as long as you stay out of the left lane, you should be fine.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17283634-youve-got-to-be-kidding-me-maryland-woman-gets-a-ticket-for-driving-63-mph-in-a-65-zone?lite=obinsite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
TonyWilliams said:
NYLEAF said:
The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver.

Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.


Tony; you are wrong. I see a 1+ mile per kwh difference from Winter to Summer based on temperature alone. its rare but we get dry clear days in Winter here and I dont struggle to get 4 miles per kwh in Winter but only because I drive 55

but in Summer I am 4.7-5.2 miles per kwh driving 60 mph with A/C and not once or twice but SEVERAL times.

so temperature does matter
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
there is a lot of resistance for people driving slower than the posted maximum speed and that is simply sad.
There is a whole website dedicated to 55 mph, along with lot of data and driving tips and tricks. Apparently, some people recommend this for gas burners too, because of the dramatic impact on fuel economy. For someone who has essentially grown up driving on the autobahn, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but I did try to drive the Smart diesel I rented in Munich in this fashion. The results were remarkable: the fuel gauge barely moved after 110 km, and it took less then couple of liters to top off the car.
 
surfingslovak said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
there is a lot of resistance for people driving slower than the posted maximum speed and that is simply sad.
There is a whole website dedicated to 55 mph, along with lot of data and driving tips and tricks. Apparently, some people recommend this for gas burners too, because of the dramatic impact on fuel economy. For someone who has essentially grown up driving on the autobahn, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but I did try to drive the Smart diesel I rented in Munich in this fashion. The results were remarkable: the fuel gauge didn't even move after 110 km, and it took less than a liter to top off the car.

i never drove the Prius that slow, but did drive 60-62 and averaged near 55 mpg in Summer when everyone else was whining because they were getting 42-43 and could not figure out why... its all basic physics.

every mph above 60 really takes a toll. every mph below 60 really gives a lot of benefit. as for me? I MUCH rather drive 55 on a 3 lane freeway getting home 10 minutes later and GET HOME!
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
TonyWilliams said:
NYLEAF said:
The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver.

Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.


Tony; you are wrong. I see a 1+ mile per kwh difference from Winter to Summer based on temperature alone. its rare but we get dry clear days in Winter here and I dont struggle to get 4 miles per kwh in Winter but only because I drive 55

but in Summer I am 4.7-5.2 miles per kwh driving 60 mph with A/C and not once or twice but SEVERAL times.

so temperature does matter

I haven't had my car long and haven't collected reliable data (just using what my car tells me), but my experience reflects a difference in economy based on the temperature, especially when the temperature is below freezing. That's why I made the original post about cold climates. That being said, I will defer to Tony because he knows a lot more about the car than I do. Maybe other factors (wind, etc.) are accounting for the difference, and like I said before, it's not like I've done a scientific study.
 
Yesterday we just completed a trip of 68.4 miles and were into the second to the last bar of charge. The GOM showed 22 miles left (which is a joke) so I figure we probably could have gone 80 miles before being in trouble. Our LEAF is a 2011 with over 22,000 miles on it. A 2013 with the extra little added range should make it possible however, if you are going to be driving 65 mph with some hills, make sure you have the dealership show you how the GPS system works and where you can get a charge. You can put in your destination (i.e. home) and then let the system show you the nearby charging stations along your route. I've found that some are Blink units that require a subscription and a card to activate them. The best bet for a free charge is at participating Nissan dealers. I've used a couple of them with very good results.

In our case we were using surface streets all the way and were showing as high as 6.0 miles per kWh and finished the trip in the high 5's. I think that's a joke as well because the LEAF supposedly limits full charge and full discharge of the battery. Thus, if we are allowed to use somewhere around 21 kWh out of 24, then we should have been able to go well over 100 miles which is dreaming. The point is for a new owner that these gauges are not absolute but need to be used as a relative indicator. I use the number of bars left (I wish they had a kWh left display) and compare them to the actual mileage I have driven. Then I can forecast more closely knowing what the remainder of my trip is (e.g. uphill, downhill, speed, etc). Thus, although we kept using the GPS for charging stations, my calculations showed we would make it home without a charge and we did.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
but in Summer I am 4.7-5.2 miles per kwh driving 60 mph with A/C and not once or twice but SEVERAL times.

so temperature does matter

Hmmmmm, 5.2 miles per kWh at 60mph? That is simply "amazing"! Congratulations to you and your "Super LEAF".
 
ERG4ALL said:
Our LEAF is a 2011 with over 22,000 miles on it.

In our case we were using surface streets all the way and were showing as high as 6.0 miles per kWh and finished the trip in the high 5's. I think that's a joke as well because the LEAF supposedly limits full charge and full discharge of the battery. Thus, if we are allowed to use somewhere around 21 kWh out of 24, then we should have been able to go well over 100 miles which is dreaming.
You easily could have when your LEAF was new, now that your LEAF has aged in Arizona I suspect the gauges are not off as much as you think they are and you have a lot less usable than 21 kWh...
 
TonyWilliams said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
but in Summer I am 4.7-5.2 miles per kwh driving 60 mph with A/C and not once or twice but SEVERAL times.

so temperature does matter

Hmmmmm, 5.2 miles per kWh at 60mph? That is simply "amazing"! Congratulations to you and you "Super LEAF"

4.7 is more likely and what is very unlikely is going a sustained 60 mph anywhere around here except very late at night.

also will clarify my statement a bit. the numbers are from my commute where there is a day or two a week when i do no other driving. there is a 5 mile drive at street speeds at the home end going and coming so it would not all be at 650 mph but that same stretch of city streets does not change in Winter
 
Last summer, I commuted to and from work an entire week on one charge. I wanted to see if I could break the 100-mile barrier in everyday driving with a somewhat degraded battery. As you can imagine, it was a lot of low-speed driving on side streets, and I didn't make a lot of new friends, I'm afraid. Although this is within the realm of possibilities, it's not representative of the average US LEAF driver in any way, shape, or form. I think most owners get between 4.2 and 4.6 m/kWh in the summer. This could be easily determined trough telematics. Sometimes I really wish that we had the equivalent of voltstats.net for the LEAF. It would save us a few debates.


100milecoomute1
agingmnl
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
... 4.7 is more likely and what is very unlikely is going a sustained 60 mph anywhere around here except very late at night.

also will clarify my statement a bit. the numbers are from my commute where there is a day or two a week when i do no other driving. there is a 5 mile drive at street speeds at the home end going and coming so it would not all be at 650 mph but that same stretch of city streets does not change in Winter

Dave, do you see the pattern that I see developing? You make a lot of accusations and outright bullshit statements based on some pretty fuzzy logic. If you works for you, awesome, but I personally don't operate that way, and really don't appreciate some of your recent "soft attacks" directed at me.

I personally don't care if you think you get 4.7 or 9.9 miles per kWh at whatever speed you want, but there might just be people following along who are new to the car who don't know any better. So, I most sincerely hope you take this as constructive criticism from me.

Thanks,

Tony
 
TonyWilliams said:
Publius said:
I honestly don't see you getting 4 miles/kwh if it's 32 F where you live, and certainly don't see you getting that if it's snowing or you use the heater.... Does anyone with experience in a cold climate disagree with me?

The cold doesn't have much to do with the economy. Running the heater and plowing through snow does, though.

If the roads are dry and "uncontanimated" with snow, and the heater is off, the LEAF will get about 4 miles/kWh at 65mph regardless of the temperature on a level, no wind roadway.

Of course, if you're cutting it close, cold temperatures will increase tire rolling resistance, and the air is more dense (which requires more energy to push the car at the same speed with warmer air at the same elevation). The Range Chart (and the LEAF Energy app) take temperature and elevation into consideration (density altitude).

You don't have to live in cold weather to understand the issues.


Tony, you can say anything you want about "misleading" statements i make and maybe i do need to clarify what i say especially when it comes to commutes I have made and just because you cant get 5.2 miles /kwh or any other number does not mean that no one can.

the tests you run makes a great baseline but that is all it is. not a definitive number in anyway but that doesnt matter. we all know that

but this entire conversation started with the bolded text you put out and i will say it now and forever is total Bullshit
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Tony, you can say anything you want about "misleading" statements i make and maybe i do need to clarify what i say especially when it comes to commutes I have made and just because you cant get 5.2 miles /kwh or any other number does not mean that no one can.

Sure you can... downhill or with a tailwind. No amount of super driving, air conditioner running in reverse, tires inflated to 85 psi, and flapping your arms out the window will do 5.2 miles/kWh at 60 mph on flat terrain.


the tests you run makes a great baseline but that is all it is. not a definitive number in anyway but that doesnt matter. we all know that

but this entire conversation started with the bolded text you put out and i will say it now and forever is total Bullshit


I don't think I got through in the manner I had hoped. Best wishes.
 
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