smkettner
Well-known member
Metalman said:
Gas or diesel generator will come at a lower cost and provide more power.
What became of the "LEAF TO HOME" Power the house Kit?
- Thread starter KillaWhat
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Gas or diesel generator will come at a lower cost and provide more power.
aries
Well-known member
adric22 said:
The intended use of this would not be for living off the grid or protracted multi-day outages brought on by epic natural disasters! The use would be for the occasional power outage people regularly experience due to a transiting storm, utility crew work, etc. such outages last only a few hours usually. Leaf battery is big enough for a LONG runtime if you only run the essentials (.. Can avoid using your electric oven, electric heat, or electric dryer!).
I have a 12KWh central ups system for my computer room and home theater stuff and rarely run that down. Most outages just aren't very long.
Leaf has more than 2x capacity of my ups. Plus most people aren't going to buy generators or big UPS' but many may have a leaf!
I do have a generator for those long occasions... And it is powerful enough to charge leaf if needed (not needed, we have two other cars).
Ingineer
Well-known member
The Leaf's DC-DC converter can supply up to about 1.7kW or 135a. This unit takes ~400v power from the traction battery and makes approximately 13 volts. (varies according to charge requirements of the 12v aux battery) It should be able to power up to 1.5kW of external load with no problems, provided most of the accessories are left off.
One interesting thing is, unlike the 12v system on a ICE car, there is almost no voltage sag. The DC-DC converter is a high-frequency switch mode converter, so it can respond very fast to high current surges, whereas a normal ICE car alternator cannot, and it's also RPM dependant for maximum output.
WARNING: NEVER connect anything directly to the negative post of the Leaf's 12v aux battery! This is a current sensor and doing so will disrupt the charging system! (Connect all accessories to the body ground, or, if high-current, the black wire screwed to the top of the DC-DC JB. (Behind the inverter)
Note: I have not tested it at full load for an extended period of time, so there may be some thermal limiting that could cause output to drop after long runs of high-current use.
Here's my test:
-Phil
One interesting thing is, unlike the 12v system on a ICE car, there is almost no voltage sag. The DC-DC converter is a high-frequency switch mode converter, so it can respond very fast to high current surges, whereas a normal ICE car alternator cannot, and it's also RPM dependant for maximum output.
WARNING: NEVER connect anything directly to the negative post of the Leaf's 12v aux battery! This is a current sensor and doing so will disrupt the charging system! (Connect all accessories to the body ground, or, if high-current, the black wire screwed to the top of the DC-DC JB. (Behind the inverter)
Note: I have not tested it at full load for an extended period of time, so there may be some thermal limiting that could cause output to drop after long runs of high-current use.
Here's my test:
-Phil
JimSouCal
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2011
- Messages
- 860
Ingineer said:
Warning duly noted. Much thanks.
Does anyone have a suggestion to source an inverter? For running a refrigerator, what inverter might be best in those range limits for emergency standby power? Would getting a separate full sign wave inverter make sense, or would it be better to run computers and electronics off of UPS feed by a less conditioned AC inverter source? Earthquakes and solar storms--you never know...
Ingineer
Well-known member
Computers, lights, assorted electronics, etc are all ok with modified sine (step). Switch-mode power supplies do not care about the poor waveform.JimSouCal said:
Anything with a single-phase AC motor is not going to like the modified sine. Fridge compressors will not run well and will not be efficient. Most microwave ovens will put out low power on it as well. (excluding inverter-based microwaves)
So in summary; the extra cost of a pure-sine inverter is only something to consider if you plan to run a fridge, motorized appliances (such as fans), or conventional microwaves.
Some UPS units will not like the modified sine and will stay on battery. FYI: Most smaller UPS units are based on modified sine as computers do fine with it.
-Phil
KillaWhat
Well-known member
Ingineer said:The Leaf's DC-DC converter can supply up to about 1.7kW or 135a. This unit takes ~400v power from the traction battery and makes approximately 13 volts. (varies according to charge requirements of the 12v aux battery) It should be able to power up to 1.5kW of external load with no problems, provided most of the accessories are left off.
One interesting thing is, unlike the 12v system on a ICE car, there is almost no voltage sag. The DC-DC converter is a high-frequency switch mode converter, so it can respond very fast to high current surges, whereas a normal ICE car alternator cannot, and it's also RPM dependant for maximum output.
WARNING: NEVER connect anything directly to the negative post of the Leaf's 12v aux battery! This is a current sensor and doing so will disrupt the charging system! (Connect all accessories to the body ground, or, if high-current, the black wire screwed to the top of the DC-DC JB. (Behind the inverter)
Note: I have not tested it at full load for an extended period of time, so there may be some thermal limiting that could cause output to drop after long runs of high-current use.
Here's my test:
-Phil
First, thanks for wading into this discussion Phil.
So let me understand this..
Rather than access the High Voltage pack, we can simply pull 12VDC off (avoiding the negative battery terminal), and the high voltage pack, by way of the DC to DC converter, will support this load?
Maybe with a set of #4 AWG Anderson connectors, and feed this into a nice inverter, and we have a 17,000 watt backup power source?
Sounds pretty clean, far less involved than messing with the pack, negotiating boards, fire, death, plague, locusts, etc.
It's not a lot of power, but it's enough to be worth the effort.
Sounds like 10 to 15 hours continuous from a full charge, assuming losses along the way in the system.
Think I'll give it a try in "my spare time" after I build my "Open EVSE" hidden in my mailbox post, which I have been in the middle of for 2 months,
aries
Well-known member
KillaWhat said:
No, 1,700 watts... 1.7kw is what was tested, NOT 17kw.
KillaWhat
Well-known member
aries said:
oops. pushed oone tooo many 0's
smkettner
Well-known member
I would be cautious with running 1500w continuous through the DC/DC converter.
GRA
Well-known member
And I would be using wire considerably larger than #4 AWG. Off the top of my head I'd think 2/0 or larger for that current, depending on run distance.smkettner said:
NullPointer
Active member
I just successfully used this proposed setup to power my fridge during a power outage due to Hurricane Sandy. I purchased a Xantrex pure sine wave inverter, 1000W continuous, 2000W surge, along with a pair of #2 AWG 18" leads. I connected the negative terminal of the Xantrex inverter to an empty hole on the chassis of the car's DC-DC converter, as recommended on this thread. I used an extension cord to connect the fridge in the kitchen to the inverter in the garage, 25 feet away.
My fridge is rated at 6.5A max, and draws close to this level of current when it is first plugged in. However the typical draw is around 1A or less, with a total power usage of 2 kWh over 24 hours. So this target usage is well below the rating of the inverter and the DC-DC converter.
The day before the storm, I had charged the car to a full 12 bars. During the power outage, I used this setup to power my fridge for 8 hours, drawing 0.49 kWh total. The car dash showed 12 bars (full) and an estimated range of 100 miles when starting this setup, and after 8 hours was down to 11 bars and an estimated range of 90 miles.
My fridge is rated at 6.5A max, and draws close to this level of current when it is first plugged in. However the typical draw is around 1A or less, with a total power usage of 2 kWh over 24 hours. So this target usage is well below the rating of the inverter and the DC-DC converter.
The day before the storm, I had charged the car to a full 12 bars. During the power outage, I used this setup to power my fridge for 8 hours, drawing 0.49 kWh total. The car dash showed 12 bars (full) and an estimated range of 100 miles when starting this setup, and after 8 hours was down to 11 bars and an estimated range of 90 miles.
HairyCairy
Well-known member
What a great use of your vehicle in an emergency, pending any long term effects.
I was hoping when you get power restored if you could show a picture of the set up you used to run your refrigerator.
I would like to prepare my own contingency plan for an emergency. I would default to generator first, and leaf as last resort. I would also like to prepare a list of devices that the leaf could run in an emergency off of an inverter style set up like you have in place.
Good luck, hopefully you get power back soon.
The Hairy One
Ohh and Phil...always love reading your posts...learn something new every time.
I was hoping when you get power restored if you could show a picture of the set up you used to run your refrigerator.
I would like to prepare my own contingency plan for an emergency. I would default to generator first, and leaf as last resort. I would also like to prepare a list of devices that the leaf could run in an emergency off of an inverter style set up like you have in place.
Good luck, hopefully you get power back soon.
The Hairy One
Ohh and Phil...always love reading your posts...learn something new every time.
mxp
Well-known member
NullPointer said:
This is pretty amazing pre-planning and the use of the Leaf! Once the storm passes over, pls share some pictures of your setup.
If you have some time, perhaps you can write-up a step-by-step how to implement this?
Many thanks! I hope you/and your family survived Sandy....
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
NullPointer said:
Is this inverter "weatherized" enough to be left under the hood and hard wired?
Power - Surge Rating 2000 W
Power - Output (Watts) 1000 W
Voltage - Input Range (Volts) 10.5 - 15.5 Vdc
Waveform Tru
Waterproof NONE
KillaWhat
Well-known member
Very Cool!
gascant
Well-known member
Actually, I doubt you would want to leave and inverter under the hood permanently, or even semi permanently. Even more so if the LEAF was already in the garage and one was using it for backup power for a fridge. I think a good solution is to go with a set up like the one used in this example for the Prius, i.e., a good connector that is permanently mounted in the LEAF and can be easily accessed by the inverter cables with the mating connector: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?aakikthaeny66f0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Of course, as mentioned above, do not hook the negative cable up directly to the battery (-) terminal, as the author of the Prius article did.
I've thought about making a setup like this to have access to AC power at times when I've had the LEAF on display (with the inverter outside the car). It would allow driving a 300-500 Watt audio system and a laptop, and/or some sort of monitor to show videos. Much better than using battery/jumper cable clamps to pull the power, especially when people are around and looking at the car.
Of course, as mentioned above, do not hook the negative cable up directly to the battery (-) terminal, as the author of the Prius article did.
I've thought about making a setup like this to have access to AC power at times when I've had the LEAF on display (with the inverter outside the car). It would allow driving a 300-500 Watt audio system and a laptop, and/or some sort of monitor to show videos. Much better than using battery/jumper cable clamps to pull the power, especially when people are around and looking at the car.
to clarify, Positive AUX battery terminal NEG to body ground , turn car on, turn inverter on and voila 1000watt AC power. 20 hours of quite battery UPS does sound nice when the power goes out. Next idea Wall mount Inverter ,Wire into breaker box and then just cable between the two when needed. Seems like a weekend project before hurricane season hits full force.
ebill3
Well-known member
I have done my share of house wiring, but I don't like that "wire into breaker box" suggestion. That is something for a qualified electrician, not a do-it-yourself week end project.mksE55 said:
I'll stick with extension cords of the proper size.
ebill3
Well-known member
Well, I wasn't thinking of codes either. I was thinking 'life and death serious'. Of course, if you are infallible and you, or someone else not knowledgeable of the lash up, couldn't possibly back feed into the grid and zap the lineman trying to restore your power, then no problem.mksE55 said:
You can take care of the essentials with a few 12 ga extension cords from the inverter. Worked just fine for me when I lived in the sticks and used a small generator. Wasn't worth the expense or trouble to have a proper transfer switch installed.
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