EVDrive
Well-known member
Most people thought Tesla would never deliver the model s. I think they have strong long term prospects. They are shifting the paradigm on the practicality of electric cars. Go tesla.
Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread
- Thread starter jcesare
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
cwerdna
Well-known member
Ok, although I haven't carefully examined their financials or SEC filings, take a look at http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TSLA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TSLA+Income+Statement&annual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.EVDrive said:
At least on a yearly basis, their revenues are accelerating but their losses are too. The quarterly picture isn't so good: declining quarterly revenues w/worsening losses.
Being in the car business is EXPENSIVE. I remember a car magazine saying something along the lines of, any car company can build a great car for a large amount of $ (I think they used a figure in the $70K to $200K range), but the issue is they have to be able to price it to be comparable vs. their competitors and turn a profit too.
I want them to succeed, but it really makes me wonder whether it's possible given their current pricing and promises.
Maybe you should lease? I have no particular knowledge of Tesla's condition other than the news bites about them on the radio, but larger car companies have failed in the past few years - so it's possible (Saab).
Maybe getting a RAV-4EV (2013+) helps to lower the risk as you will still have Toyota. Unfortunately, you don't get the Tesla fast charge, etc.
Maybe getting a RAV-4EV (2013+) helps to lower the risk as you will still have Toyota. Unfortunately, you don't get the Tesla fast charge, etc.
TonyWilliams said:
Boomer23 and I have posted comments on our RAV4 EV test-drives in the thread for the Alt-Car Expo in Santa Monica on Friday, 9-28.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=10008&p=231580#p231580
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=10008&p=231580#p231580
GRA
Well-known member
Comparison test of the FitEV and RAV4EV here:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1211_2013_honda_fit_2012_toyota_rav4_ev_comparison/?rec=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1211_2013_honda_fit_2012_toyota_rav4_ev_comparison/?rec=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
GRA said:
Don't really know how you can compare the two...they are so totally different. But given the choice between the RAV4EV, the Fit EV, and the LEAF. I think I'd be inclined towards a two-way tie between the Toyota and the Nissan - the Fit just felt that little bit less sophisticated, like you would expect of what is essentially an econobox. Of course, the miniscule amount of seat time I've had in both the Toyota and the Honda is not really conducive to a lasting impression, so I do hope the opportunity to drive both more presents itself.
Boomer23
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
They are really very different cars, as mwalsh says. I think that Motor Trend just happened to have the two to test in the same time span, so they did a bit of a comparison. From my seat time in the Fit EV, though, I found it among the sportiest of the currently available offerings. The Sport mode adds enough extra power and torque, and the car is light weight enough to provide a pretty sporty handling experience, and the independent rear suspension adds to the handling precision. The Fit EV is a hoot to drive around town. The Fit EV is smaller inside than the LEAF, so there is less passenger room, and it's true that the dash and gauges are less impressive than the LEAF's. The amount of information available is less than the LEAF shows you (including, it should be noted, that the Fit EV doesn't have any gauge that shows battery capacity. Come to think of it, I don't know of a production EV that does have that, other than the LEAF.) If you're considering the Fit EV lease in CA or Portland OR, I recommend that you seek out a dealer that handles the Fit EV and take it for a test drive on some curvy roads to get a feel for the difference between it and the LEAF.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
i generally find that modified versions of existing platforms have too many compromises. the RAV 4 EV might be the only exception but i also think its modification contributes to a higher than acceptable sticker price.
Herm
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
The RAV4 seems to be the only exception, probably due to the available room for parts. Sticker price is due to short production runs, you are paying for a custom car. ALL EVs suffer from this, including the Volt.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Herm said:
you do mean "compliance" car right?
Thanks to Sparky bringing a Toyota RAV4 EV demo car to the Oct 13 Socal meet at Cerritos, I was able to test-drive the RAV4 EV a second time. Boomer23 also rode along.
I did a very crude coasting test from 35 mph to stop in neutral. I didn't have a LEAF for comparison, but the RAV4 seemed to have decent but not great coasting efficiency.
There were no hills to give the regeneration a real test, but I watched it with the car in "B" mode (higher regeneration). Like my first test drive, I saw only modest regeneration without my foot on the brake. Hopefully more cuts in on downgrades. With the brake applied, I did see modest regeneration, but it felt like the friction brakes were being applied in parallel at even light braking levels. The regeneration display I was following had no kW markings. Perhaps, like the LEAF, the center display can show more, but I am not optimistic.
Since the RAV4 EV has no QC port, miles per hour of L2 charge is especially important to me for this vehicle. Although its aerodynamic drag coefficient is about the same as the LEAF's, its larger frontal area will most likely give it a lower score on L2 mileage than the 2013 LEAF on common 32A L2.
I did a very crude coasting test from 35 mph to stop in neutral. I didn't have a LEAF for comparison, but the RAV4 seemed to have decent but not great coasting efficiency.
There were no hills to give the regeneration a real test, but I watched it with the car in "B" mode (higher regeneration). Like my first test drive, I saw only modest regeneration without my foot on the brake. Hopefully more cuts in on downgrades. With the brake applied, I did see modest regeneration, but it felt like the friction brakes were being applied in parallel at even light braking levels. The regeneration display I was following had no kW markings. Perhaps, like the LEAF, the center display can show more, but I am not optimistic.
Since the RAV4 EV has no QC port, miles per hour of L2 charge is especially important to me for this vehicle. Although its aerodynamic drag coefficient is about the same as the LEAF's, its larger frontal area will most likely give it a lower score on L2 mileage than the 2013 LEAF on common 32A L2.
abasile
Well-known member
It is unfortunate that Toyota chose to dial back the regen, making the new RAV4 EV more like the Prius in that respect. (The prototype RAV4 EV that I drove almost a year ago had excellent regen.)tbleakne said:
If anyone has an opportunity to take a new RAV4 EV for an extended test drive, please consider doing some mountain roads.
It does seem that the 2013 LEAF comes out ahead by that measure. But you start out with so much more range in the RAV4!tbleakne said:
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
tbleakne said:
tire pressure would have been set for maximum ride comfort (very little time to impress, so Toyota will pull out all the tricks) which means worst pressure for coasting. I find little difference in handling or ride comfort when tire is inflated to max pressure on side wall. i do feel an EXTREME change in handling especially on turns. higher pressures decreases the feeling of body roll and with the very low center of gravity caused by the traction battery, this is a good thing. a VERY Good thing
JeremyW
Well-known member
abasile said:If anyone has an opportunity to take a new RAV4 EV for an extended test drive, please consider doing some mountain roads.
There's a dealer in my area that rents them (one?) for ~$130 for a weekend. Will try to schedual a rental probably in two weeks. I've got a good hill nearby I can test out the regen. Even in "B" on flat ground, there seemed to be more "pull back" from the regen than a Leaf in Eco.
Of course my big test is to see how fast I can go up the hill, rather than regen down it... :mrgreen:
This would be great. I guess you are not likely to do this RAV4 EV test drive before we see you in SoCal this Saturday?JeremyW said:abasile said:If anyone has an opportunity to take a new RAV4 EV for an extended test drive, please consider doing some mountain roads.
There's a dealer in my area that rents them (one?) for ~$130 for a weekend. Will try to schedual a rental probably in two weeks. I've got a good hill nearby I can test out the regen. Even in "B" on flat ground, there seemed to be more "pull back" from the regen than a Leaf in Eco.
Of course my big test is to see how fast I can go up the hill, rather than regen down it... :mrgreen:
I test drove one at Mission Bay Mossy. They didn't seem eager to sell it and the sales folks didn't even really know it was on the lot. It has the same look as the ICE version, but I like that the Leaf has iconic styling not like anything else in their lineup.
It is a nice car, but I think I would buy a Tesla for just a little more money to get the additional range. If it were AWD, I might reconsider. You cannot get third row seating either so I am not sure it is much bigger than a Leaf from a passenger comfort perspective.
They wouldn't budge on MSRP. I think you can get $3200 in lease cash however if you just want to lease. Basically you are paying 20% more than a Leaf for 25% more range and a little more storage space.
If I could get 5% off MSRP, I might reconsider. I think I will just wait for Tesla to do a mini-SUV as their Model X is too ostentatious for me.
It is a nice car, but I think I would buy a Tesla for just a little more money to get the additional range. If it were AWD, I might reconsider. You cannot get third row seating either so I am not sure it is much bigger than a Leaf from a passenger comfort perspective.
They wouldn't budge on MSRP. I think you can get $3200 in lease cash however if you just want to lease. Basically you are paying 20% more than a Leaf for 25% more range and a little more storage space.
If I could get 5% off MSRP, I might reconsider. I think I will just wait for Tesla to do a mini-SUV as their Model X is too ostentatious for me.
JeremyW
Well-known member
I'm renting it this weekend. Cannot wait!tbleakne said:
Great to hear. What are they charging you to rent the RAV4 EV? I assume they are renting you their demo unit and they have at least one other RAV4 EV on the lot to show any customers who show up while you have the demo.JeremyW said:I'm renting it this weekend. Cannot wait!tbleakne said:
I am sure you know what data to take.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
The 2012 Toyota Rav4 EV:
The Tesla 10kW charger on the Rav4:
Some box in the left rear corner of the Rav4:
This morning's drive after a "range mode" charge (100% in LEAF speak):
This morning, after the 35 minute drive:
After I turned the car off:
The Tesla 10kW charger on the Rav4:
Some box in the left rear corner of the Rav4:
This morning's drive after a "range mode" charge (100% in LEAF speak):
This morning, after the 35 minute drive:
After I turned the car off:
EnergyNovice
Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2012
- Messages
- 21
evnow said:
Model S hands down!
Similar threads
