bamamarc77
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2012
Leaf Number: 015925

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:51 pm

hey there,
here's my contribution. don't know how much more you need to know but 80% of the trip was with 390 passenger pounds and the last 20% with 215 passenger pounds. ambient temp was around 70 degrees. feel like i could go much further if i planned this out. got home with 80 miles and then decided to try the rest of the way.
low battery warning at 85.3 miles. never received vlbw.
thanks,
marc
Image
Birmingham, Alabama
glacier pearl '12 leaf SL with 5700 miles bought from nalley lexus in atlanta on 5/31/12
Leaf #15925
evse upgrade, rev2
range extender = 2003 honda insight

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:59 pm

bamamarc77 wrote:hey there,
here's my contribution. don't know how much more you need to know but 80% of the trip was with 390 passenger pounds and the last 20% with 215 passenger pounds. ambient temp was around 70 degrees. feel like i could go much further if i planned this out. got home with 80 miles and then decided to try the rest of the way.
low battery warning at 85.3 miles. never received vlbw.
thanks,
marc
Marc,

Welcome to the club! You'll find your green sport jacket, with a large number 33 attached thereon, behind the door in the cloak room.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:18 am

Well, we have finally managed to achieve over 100 miles on a single charge. I must say that achieving that around here is somewhat of a PITA! I don't think we will be doing much more charging to 100% or discharging below VLBW anytime soon. Time to concentrate on achieving very long battery life instead!

Here are some stats from my drive:
Wall energy using L1 charging from 0.2 miles below VLBW to 100% prior to drive: 27.17 kWh
Total number of legs driven: 10
Ambient temperature range for the driving: ~65F to 85F
Battery temperature range for the driving: Mostly at 6 temperature bars but a small amount at 5 bars
Miles to LBW: 88.7 mi. (FWIW, 10 was showing on GOM.)
Miles to VLBW: 100.3 mi.
Miles total: 101.0 mi.
Dash efficiency: 5.7 mi./kWh
Calculated energy usage: 17.7 kWh
Odometer at end of drive: 3718 mi.
Wall energy using L1 charging from 0.7 miles below VLBW to 100% following the drive: 26.85 kWh

And finally, the important part:
100_Mile_Club.jpg
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Last edited by RegGuheert on Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:34 pm

RegGuheert wrote:Wall energy using L1 charging from 0.2 miles below VLBW to 100% prior to drive: 27.17 kWh
Total number of legs driven: 10
Ambient temperature range for the driving: ~65F to 85F
Battery temperature range for the driving: Mostly at 6 temperature bars but a small amount at 5 bars
Miles to LBW: 88.7 mi. (FWIW, 10 was showing on GOM.)
Miles to VLBW: 100.3 mi.
Miles total: 101.0 mi.
Dash efficiency: 5.7 mi./kWh
Calculated energy usage: 17.7 kWh
So, assuming it takes about the same amount of energy to recharge afterward as it did before (and it should) you seem to be getting only 65% efficiency, wall to wheels. Just from memory, it seems other people have reported 73% to 76% when using L1. Any reason you can think of why yours should be so much lower? High beams on all the time? Heat cranked up to max? 16 bags of cement mix in the back? 1000w aftermarket stereo blasting? :lol:

[Don't be ashamed to admit it. Things like that just make your accomplishment more impressive.]

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:07 am

planet4ever wrote:So, assuming it takes about the same amount of energy to recharge afterward as it did before (and it should) you seem to be getting only 65% efficiency, wall to wheels. Just from memory, it seems other people have reported 73% to 76% when using L1.
Given that Phil has measured L1 charging efficiency to be 77.5%, those numbers seem rather high to me. That would imply that battery storage efficiency combined with battery-to-wheels efficiency is 94% to 98%. I will say 65% L1 wall-to-wheels efficiency sounds more reasonable since it puts battery storage plus battery-to-wheels efficiency at 84%. (FWIW, the line voltage at the input to our EVSE was 113.2V, which is pretty close to the 112.5V Phil had when he made his measurements.)
planet4ever wrote:Any reason you can think of why yours should be so much lower? High beams on all the time? Heat cranked up to max? 16 bags of cement mix in the back? 1000w aftermarket stereo blasting?
High beams were on for no more than five minutes. Climate control was off during the entire drive. Driver plus other passengers and cargo never exceeded 400 lbs. Tire pressure is 38 psi. There was no rain or standing water.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15643
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:19 am

battery to wheels should be 97+%. i measured 75% efficiency with L1 overall so if B2W efficiency takes 2-3% you would have the figure i received.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:00 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:battery to wheels should be 97+%. i measured 75% efficiency with L1 overall so if B2W efficiency takes 2-3% you would have the figure i received.
According to a presentation by Nissan's Shinsuke Nakazawa, the PEAK efficiency of the LEAF's powertrain is below 95% and a weighted average of normal driving conditions is just above 90%:
The powertrain system archives high efficiency of near 95% at the most efficient operating point. At the weighted average of the operating points used most frequently by the vehicle, this electric powertrain still achieves a high efficiency of over 90%.
Storage efficiency of the battery pack over a SOC range of 93% down to 10% is probably on the order of 97%. Then add in wind resistance and (possibly) tire rolling resistance and you are easily in the 85% range.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15643
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:22 am

RegGuheert wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:battery to wheels should be 97+%. i measured 75% efficiency with L1 overall so if B2W efficiency takes 2-3% you would have the figure i received.
According to a presentation by Nissan's Shinsuke Nakazawa, the PEAK efficiency of the LEAF's powertrain is below 95% and a weighted average of normal driving conditions is just above 90%:
The powertrain system archives high efficiency of near 95% at the most efficient operating point. At the weighted average of the operating points used most frequently by the vehicle, this electric powertrain still achieves a high efficiency of over 90%.
Storage efficiency of the battery pack over a SOC range of 93% down to 10% is probably on the order of 97%. Then add in wind resistance and (possibly) tire rolling resistance and you are easily in the 85% range.
what?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:19 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:what?
Simply put, based on the data provided by Nissan:

1) Claims of battery-to-wheels efficiency for the LEAF of 95% or above are incorrect. (Alternatively, there is another source of energy involved such as gravitational potential energy or wind.)
2) Claims of battery-to-wheels efficiency for the LEAF of 90% to 95% are highly suspect.
3) Claims of battery-to-wheels efficiency for the LEAF below 90% are reasonable.

Regarding Phil's measurement of L1 charging efficiency, it should be noted that the number provided is for a single line and battery voltage pair ONLY. Specifically, it is for a line voltage of 112.5V and whatever battery voltage occurs at 65% SOC, 62F and charging at a rate of 1125W. The efficiency will be different at othe line and battery voltages. That said, I doubt that it should move around more than a percent or so.

BTW, I see that I used the wrong L1 efficiency from Phil's post since I have the L2 EVSEupgraded unit. Using the 78.3% number given, I can calculate the energy put into the battery after my drive to be approximately 21kWh. That means the other efficiencies of battery storage and battery-to-wheels for our LEAF for this drive were about 84% combined.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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DaveEV
Posts: 6251
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: 100 Mile and 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled

Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:02 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:what?
Simply put...
I think Dave's comment was in regards to the wind resistance comment. Wind resistance doesn't have anything to do with efficiency to the wheels. Overall efficiency, yes. Efficiency to the wheels, no.

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