davetex99
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:32 pm

I just drove 102.3 miles tonight on a single charge. First time I've really tried. The first 17 miles, I wasn't even trying as we had just planned to go out to eat and back. Then dropped our daughter off and took off to the sister-in-law's house, being more conservative. Got back having gone 85 miles and still had 10 miles on the guessometer. My wife and I looked at each other and thought at the same time if we could get over 100. Made a couple of laps around the airport so we wouldn't be too far from home. Got the --- at 95 miles. One more lap and I was back at my driveway at 102.3 miles. I could have gone further as I hadn't gotten the turtle, but decided to call it a night.
Dave Davidson
Glen Burnie, Maryland
2011 Glacier Pearl SL w/QC 1041
Reserved 4/20/2010
Finally bought orphan due to delays
Still have my reservation and may use it for a 2013 Leaf

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:20 pm

davetex99 wrote:I just drove 102.3 miles tonight on a single charge.
You're in the club. Congrats.

User avatar
Nekota
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:16 pm
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2182
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:59 am

I just turned 15,000 and with a new GID meter I decided to try for 100 and finished at 115.1 miles after VLB warning came on. The GID meter started with 260 GIDs and I voice logged the miles, GIDS, and the new 55B SOC values while I drove. The starting temp was 58 and ended at 68. The GIDs went from 260 down to 24 with 6.8 miles/kwhr (Low Battery at 49 and Very Low Battery at 24). The carwings data (I don't have the NTB=041 patch) says I went 112.3 miles but only used 11.2 kwhr with 6.6 kwhr regen. The total 17.8 is more like what I used from the battery (260-24)*75.4 WHr = 17.8 KWHr for another calculation of the Watthours in a GID. I also logged the DTE (GOM) value and it appears to have been withing 5 miles of the total range during the exercise. This driving was all done in bay area suburbs with lots of stop and go and all at one sitting. I did not have any climate control active, no daytime lights on and windows were always up. Later in the week I will transcript the voice log and share the trip details for miles, SOC (55B), and GIDs.
Res 20Apr2010 / Ordered 27Sep2010 / Delivered 12May2011

PV System

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:13 am

Congratulations, Nekota! 6.8 miles/kWh is pretty impressive!
Nekota wrote:I just turned 15,000 and with a new GID meter I decided to try for 100 and finished at 115.1 miles after VLB warning came on.
Nekota wrote:The carwings data (I don't have the NTB=041 patch) says I went 112.3 miles but only used 11.2 kwhr with 6.6 kwhr regen.
You're getting the standard 2.5% error in Carwings distance that we all get, but you cannot trust the energy usage in Carwings until you get the patch applied. We just got it a week ago and it resolved that issue.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:46 am

RegGuheert wrote:Congratulations, Nekota! 6.8 miles/kWh is pretty impressive!
Nekota wrote:I just turned 15,000 and with a new GID meter I decided to try for 100 and finished at 115.1 miles after VLB warning came on.
Nekota wrote:The carwings data (I don't have the NTB=041 patch) says I went 112.3 miles but only used 11.2 kwhr with 6.6 kwhr regen.
You're getting the standard 2.5% error in Carwings distance that we all get, but you cannot trust the energy usage in Carwings until you get the patch applied. We just got it a week ago and it resolved that issue.
Nekota:

I just turned 15,000 and with a new GID meter I decided to try for 100 and finished at 115.1 miles after VLB warning came on. The GID meter started with 260 GIDs and I voice logged the miles, GIDS, and the new 55B SOC values while I drove. The starting temp was 58 and ended at 68. The GIDs went from 260 down to 24 with 6.8 miles/kwhr..
I believe that hat works out to ~16.9 kWh, as compared to your 17.8 KWh gid calculation.

I suspect both may be understanding your actual kWh use, however.

The Arizona test did showed significant inaccuracy in both the gid Wh content, and the dash m/kWh displays, of the twelve test LEAFs.

My own range tests on a car a with similar use history as Nekota's show this "impressive" drift upward in my dash, nav screen, and CW m/kWh displays, reflecting the underlying common error in understatement of kWh use, fairly convincingly, IMO:

The results from 8/30/12 were:

97.3 miles to VLB, 98.9 miles in total, by the odometer.

CW: 96.5 (~2.5% under-report) total miles, at 5.7 m/kWh, 16.8 kWh used from 100% to about the same capacity level, slightly past VLBW.

Compare this test with my first test on 9/7/11:

91.5 miles to VLB, 93.4 in total, by the odometer

CW: 91.1 (~2.5% under-report) total miles, at 4.9 m/kWh, 18.7 kWh used from 100% to about the same capacity level, slightly past VLBW.

It seems very likely to me that both are reflecting the same underlying error in my LEAF’s dash, nav screen and CW kWh use reports, as also effected by other variables which I cannot eliminate from my observations.

So, I believe that the recharge time results are compatible with my range tests, which indicate no observed reduction in range, both probably indicating that my LEAF has no observable loss of available battery capacity (though some amount has almost certainly occurred) over the last 12 months....
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 4&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So Nekota, unless you have a recharge calculation that supports either the gid or dash energy use calculations, I suggest neither you or anyone else consider them an accurate source for your LEAF's actual battery capacity.
Last edited by edatoakrun on Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
no condition is permanent

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15633
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:53 am

Nekota wrote:I just turned 15,000 and with a new GID meter I decided to try for 100 and finished at 115.1 miles after VLB warning came on. The GID meter started with 260 GIDs and I voice logged the miles, GIDS, and the new 55B SOC values while I drove. The starting temp was 58 and ended at 68. The GIDs went from 260 down to 24 with 6.8 miles/kwhr (Low Battery at 49 and Very Low Battery at 24). The carwings data (I don't have the NTB=041 patch) says I went 112.3 miles but only used 11.2 kwhr with 6.6 kwhr regen. The total 17.8 is more like what I used from the battery (260-24)*75.4 WHr = 17.8 KWHr for another calculation of the Watthours in a GID. I also logged the DTE (GOM) value and it appears to have been withing 5 miles of the total range during the exercise. This driving was all done in bay area suburbs with lots of stop and go and all at one sitting. I did not have any climate control active, no daytime lights on and windows were always up. Later in the week I will transcript the voice log and share the trip details for miles, SOC (55B), and GIDs.

WOW!! Great run!
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:11 am

Nekota wrote:I just turned 15,000 and with a new GID meter I decided to try for 100 and finished at 115.1 miles after VLB warning came on... 6.8 miles/kWh
What was the ambient temp and assumed battery temp?

6.8 * 19.43kWh (260/281 of 21) = 132 miles. Let me guess... The 6.8 came from CarWings??? Since you only drove 115 to VLB, there's no way you'd drive 132 (17 more miles) from VLB.

It's very likely that you could have gotten 8 more miles past VLB, which would have put you at number 5 in the 200km Club.

123 / 19.43kWh (260/281 of 21) = 6.3 miles/kWh

As it stands, I humbly crown you "41".

User avatar
Nekota
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:16 pm
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2182
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:45 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Nekota wrote:I just turned 15,000 and with a new GID meter I decided to try for 100 and finished at 115.1 miles after VLB warning came on... 6.8 miles/kWh
What was the ambient temp and assumed battery temp?

6.8 * 19.43kWh (260/281 of 21) = 132 miles. Let me guess... The 6.8 came from CarWings??? Since you only drove 115 to VLB, there's no way you'd drive 132 (17 more miles) from VLB.

It's very likely that you could have gotten 8 more miles past VLB, which would have put you at number 5 in the 200km Club.

123 / 19.43kWh (260/281 of 21) = 6.3 miles/kWh

As it stands, I humbly crown you "41".
The ambient temperature started at 58F and ended up at 68F as measured on the car dashboard with most of the change in the first hour. The battery temperature was 5 bars at start of run and increased to 6 bars around 60 miles.

The 6.8 was from the center console reading. Carwings gave a 10.0 miles/kwhr so I didn't bother with that one. My miles/kwhr went up during the trip as traffic density increased, my average velocity was lower. I don't think the air density would have that much of an effect with 10 degree delta at 150 feet altitude. I was surprised at the amount of energy in the battery at the low GID values, it seemed to me to be they changed slower once I got to below 50 GIDs.
Res 20Apr2010 / Ordered 27Sep2010 / Delivered 12May2011

PV System

grommet
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3612
Location: Silicon Valley

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:18 am

Nekota wrote:The 6.8 was from the center console reading. Carwings gave a 10.0 miles/kwhr so I didn't bother with that one.
Sounds like you still have the original (buggy) telematics software in your LEAF, which had a calculation bug that reported incorrect/low kWh consumption to CARWINGS/Nissan. Your Boot Ware/Application should be at 147+ and, if it isn't, can be updated via last year's TB-11-041.. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5176" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to check yourself.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: First to 100+ Miles

Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:53 am

grommet wrote:
Nekota wrote:The 6.8 was from the center console reading. Carwings gave a 10.0 miles/kwhr so I didn't bother with that one.
Sounds like you still have the original (buggy) telematics software in your LEAF, which had a calculation bug that reported incorrect/low kWh consumption to CARWINGS/Nissan. Your Boot Ware/Application should be at 147+ and, if it isn't, can be updated via last year's TB-11-041.. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5176" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to check yourself.
The center console (nav screen) appears to report m/kWh using the car odometer.

The dash apparently reports m/kWh identical to Carwings ( post TB-11-041 update) using another from-the-wheels odometer reading that understates miles by ~2.5%.

Both of those are with new stock tires. The dash odometer should become progressively less accurate, and the CW odometer more accurate, as tire circumfrence decreases with tread wear.

Unfortunately, neither the CW, dash, or nav screen can report correct m/kWh if your LEAF is under-reporting kWh use.

Many still consider gid counts and m/kWh reports as useful statements of kWh use and battery capacity, even after many reports of inaccuracy in both these data sources, have proven them to be highly suspect in many, if not all, LEAFs.

I Would suggest anyone who has any problem with Carwings get the necessary update or other service to enable it's use.

And press "accept".

The confusion between the two occurrences, available battery capacity loss, and gid/m/kWh report error, seems greatest among those that do not or can not access the Carwings energy use data.

Without the inaccurate CW records of dash m/kWh and total kWh use, as compared to accurate range test or recharge kWh use results, it would probably be very difficult to differentiate actual loss of battery capacity from the "gauge error" that obscures it.

Unfortunately, among those with with capacity bar loss, only TickTock has reported recharge kWh, and few have reported their results from range tests over time, and reported kWh use (as I have, from my 12-capacity-bar LEAF) to try to differentiate the kWh use and gid report error (if they are not the same thing) from actual battery capacity loss .

So, IMO, an immense quantity of conjectural posts have been made on the capacity loss question, in a near-vacuum of data.
no condition is permanent

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”