L3 Charger...is it worth the $700?

Okay, now that we know the rumor of the L3 being standard on the SL was false, is it worth the expense? Given that we are all early adopters and the infrastructure is not there right now (but will be in the next year or two for those in EV markets), should we go ahead and pay the premium for the L3 option since there is no add-on after purchase? I was going to purchase the car since my finance rate is much lower than the lease "money rate", but now I'm thinking of leasing for 4 years instead of buying and wait until the L3 is standard as well as having a better on board charger (3.3 vs. 6.6) and hopefully a better range battery on the second version of the Leaf. Any thoughts?

If you buy the L3 DC Option, you will have the CAPABILITY for an after-market DC charger, such as the PFC-50 made by manzanita micro, this could get you much faster charging (12KW), with more AC power availble. Without the DC port, it won't be possible to use an aftermarket charger, easily.

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=42&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64&vmcchk=1&Itemid=64

The fact that you have the DC charging port also increases the value of the Leaf for resale, it's very likely the Chademo connector could be changed out for the new SAE version, eventually.

I can't believe that you can't get the L3 port added at a later point. We don't even know what the standard is going to be here? Would it be that hard for the dealer to add the port later?

Adding the needed high-voltage, high-current wiring might be the issue.
Forgetting to "pull the plug" on the battery and working on live circuits
would be ... very dangerous.

Yes, the QC would be "easy" to add if the accessory was designed for
"later addition", and the car was wired for it, but maybe there is some
front-to-back wiring that is needed, for the QC Charging Controller.

I will not get the LEAF without the QC option.
Without the QC, I consider the LEAF a Local-Area car, and that would
be sufficient for many people and their uses. However, I would like to
do "way-point" charging to Range-Enhance, traveling North past LA, East to
Palm Springs (eventually Phoeix), and South to San Diego.

When the QC stations are along I-5, I will be able to drive to Oregon, and
to visit friends in Seattle. Of course, the fees to use the QC stations might
be way too high to be economical, but ... I hope not, in interest of facilitating
the transition to EV transportation.

Definitely getting it. Of course, I'd like for it to be a tad cheaper, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. Still, if I'm spending almost $200 on a set of floor mats...... I guess it's all relative. At least the deal I'm getting from my PD will help offset the extra cost.

I really think you will be able to get "an" L3 installed later.

Nissan just doesn't want to deal with them during the early roll-out phase. I think that is their only reason for saying you can't add the current option after the sale.

In a year, with finalized specs and more manufacturers, and when Nissan service departments are more familiar with working on the Leaf, no problem.

Just not right now.

Torn a bit on this...

One, I'm in New Mexico...we won't even have LEAFs officially until around Christmas of 2011...So I'm sure there won't be any fast chargers for at least a couple of years here. Sadly...

Two, I will be using my LEAF for purely city commuting...

But...Three...I would like the LEAF to be future proof...If I buy it I will be giving it to my daughter...so it would be nice if it was a "complete" car

Gah...I will probably never use Level 3 charging on this first gen LEAF...but part of me hates to buy an electric car without this feature.

Gavin

I'm going to get it installed. $700 isn't too horrible for that capability (though it should be standard)

However I'm really hoping that I finally get accepted into ECOtality so it'll be FREE.

Not for me, I will pass on the $700 option. I also have a gas vehicle for long trips and for me I see no use in having the quick charge.
Level 1 may prove to be enough. I will get level 2 only if needed.

Ready2plugin said:

Okay, now that we know the rumor of the L3 being standard on the SL was false, is it worth the expense? Given that we are all early adopters and the infrastructure is not there right now (but will be in the next year or two for those in EV markets), should we go ahead and pay the premium for the L3 option since there is no add-on after purchase? I was going to purchase the car since my finance rate is much lower than the lease "money rate", but now I'm thinking of leasing for 4 years instead of buying and wait until the L3 is standard as well as having a better on board charger (3.3 vs. 6.6) and hopefully a better range battery on the second version of the Leaf. Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

First of all, I never heard the rumor that the L3 charging port was standard on SL, except for the EV Project people, and that's not a rumor. What we don't know yet is whether the SV will have the DC port with the EV Project. I think it will. Secondly, thousands of EV stations (some DC) will be in place before the car is delivered in Dec./Jan. in the EV Project areas. Maybe you were talking about outside the EV Project areas?

mitch672 said:

If you buy the L3 DC Option, you will have the CAPABILITY for an after-market DC charger, such as the PFC-50 made by manzanita micro, this could get you much faster charging (12KW), with more AC power availble. Without the DC port, it won't be possible to use an aftermarket charger, easily.

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=42&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64&vmcchk=1&Itemid=64

The fact that you have the DC charging port also increases the value of the Leaf for resale, it's very likely the Chademo connector could be changed out for the new SAE version, eventually.

Click to expand...

The possible compatibility. The PFC will need to communicate with the BMS to some degree, the PFC has somewhat limited communication.

Even if they add a "L3" (Quick-Charge) command interface to the above "charger", for most people 2-hour home charging is not substantially more useful than 4-hour (6.6 kW) L2 charging.

garygid said:

Even if they add a "L3" (Quick-Charge) command interface to the above "charger", for most people 2-hour home charging is not substantially more useful than 4-hour (6.6 kW) L2 charging.

Click to expand...

Yes Gary, but the 2011 Leaf doesn't have a 6.6KW charger, it's comming with a 3.3KW, and the rumor is, that isn't changing for years.

So it's more like the difference between an 8 hour full charge, versus a 2 hour full charge. If you are at a campground and can get a 50A circuit, you could keep the manzaniti with the Leaf, and have 2 hour charging at campgrounds

You could travel across the country this way, without "real" DC fast chargers

Good point, Thanks!

I'm in a different situation So my opinion Should be taken With a grain of salt.

1) The dealership my area Is offering a discount That still puts the price Of the car with L3 recharging capability At a price That is still Lower than sticker.

2) The ev project Will install 4900 Chargers initially With a goal of 5,000,000 chargers. A successful launch Of the Leaf amongst others , Will insure That goal will become a reality.

3) I live in a state That as the highest level Of commitment To the adoption Of electric vehicle technology. Many will argue California Is number 1 And they maybe right but....

Washington state mandated Alternative vehicle options 4 it's fleets Several years ago. Electric vehicles were not Viable but hybrids were. Now that viable electric vehicles are available, i have full confidence that washington state we'll enable favorable environment for the technology to flourish, which btw has already started. Our governor has already Proposed additional money to add additional charging stations that would make it possible to drive from canada to oregon on electricity only.

Something I just noticed from what they ported from here to Autoblog Green:

Quick Charge Option: MSRP $700
Available with the SL trim, this charge port on the vehicle will allow for charging to 80% capacity in 30 minutes at 440V charging stations. (This feature cannot be added after sale).

Click to expand...

There is a MSRP on the L3. So it should be negotiable, just like the final cost of the car, right? So what do you suppose the invoice is on that...half?

Dav said:

I really think you will be able to get "an" L3 installed later.

Nissan just doesn't want to deal with them during the early roll-out phase. I think that is their only reason for saying you can't add the current option after the sale.

In a year, with finalized specs and more manufacturers, and when Nissan service departments are more familiar with working on the Leaf, no problem.

Just not right now.

Click to expand...

If the non L3 option is selected then the car may not have the harness to the pack, this would be expensive to add at the dealer and the parts would be as well. It would be costly for Nissan to wire all cars to the connector location for hv as the wire gauge and connectors are pricy. If the wire is not there and it was added later, expect it to be as much as $2500 from the dealer,if not much more.

mwalsh said:

Something I just noticed from what they ported from here to Autoblog Green:

Quick Charge Option: MSRP $700
Available with the SL trim, this charge port on the vehicle will allow for charging to 80% capacity in 30 minutes at 440V charging stations. (This feature cannot be added after sale).

Click to expand...

There is a MSRP on the L3. So it should be negotiable, just like the final cost of the car, right? So what do you suppose the invoice is on that...half?

Click to expand...

Why are there no invoice prices listed for options yet and no pictures of the options?

mwalsh said:

There is a MSRP on the L3. So it should be negotiable, just like the final cost of the car, right? So what do you suppose the invoice is on that...half?

Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me, but I have never seen a dealer negotiate the price of a car option by option. Total MSRP + fees is their starting point. If you look at most vehicles on edmunds.com, you will find that option invoice vs. option price is in line with vehicle invoice vs. vehicle price.

I wonder how many of the planned public charging stations will be L2 and how many will be L3? I know there are some older public charging stations that exist now, and they were talking about updating them to the new universal connector (J1772 I would guess). I would think those stations would be Level 2? Or did you have the 400V public charging stations deployed back in the 90's?

Just wondering if I skip adding the L3 port.. will there be 0 public charging stations that I can use? Or will some still work with my L2 port (but they would be limited to 3.3kw)?

-Peter