Motor upgrades

Changing the transmission, transaxle and gearing might still be needed if a person wants to run faster.
Otherwise that new motor will need to spin well over 10,000 rpm.

Echo the sentiment that more snap, right off the line, may be possible (note the use of the word SNAP). Me, I am going to leave that motor drive train battery software universe alone.

But I will just be very happy now that Nader has sussed out a suspension fix, and tracked his LEAF (outlasted the overheating Tesla Roadsters), paving the way for others to safely follow. If there was a way to dial back the power assist as the car rose above a few miles per hour, I'd be game for that.

Nader, if you could just perfect the best wheel and tire combo...

In order for aftermarket vendors (i.e.: vendors associated to SEMA) to start making affordable performance parts for a model of vehicle, it will need a relatively large fleet number and a following of enthusiasts interested in performance, aesthetics, etc. It will be a while before there will be enough Leafs for a company to start making parts like final drive gear sets and/or engine modifications. Also the basic stuff that always come out during the first few years of a performance model car like CAIs, cat-back systems, and other affordable power mods for ICEs won't be applicable here.

Tuning for the Leaf will definitely be a grassroots type of business. And it will only develop/grow if there is a fair segment of the fleet's owners that is interested in performance tuning. Nismo will most likely be the first to develop something along those lines. Tien already has a coilover kit (Nader's Leaf) and I recall reading a post that RSR will also develop a set of lowering springs.

Hopefully there will be some good interest in performance tuning for the Leaf and we'll see some strong aftermarket support in response.

Here you go, a 1997 GM EV1 Truck motor, its AC induction, and 85KW, 240V, 350Amps, 3 phase variable speed... only $3500, one of a kind on eBay:

"Extremely Rare GM 1997 Chevrolet S10 Delco EV1 Electric Truck Crate Motor"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270824869167&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:B:SS:US:1123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mitch672 said:

Here you go, a 1997 GM EV1 Truck motor, its AC induction, and 85KW, 240V, 350Amps, 3 phase variable speed... only $3500, one of a kind on eBay:

"Extremely Rare GM 1997 Chevrolet S10 Delco EV1 Electric Truck Crate Motor"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270824869167&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:B:SS:US:1123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

Great if you want to overpay for a dated motor with only 85kw peak. What's the point of that? You can buy a brand new useless newer version of that motor on ebay for about $1200 from a guy that has been trying to sell 10 or so for years and years. I don't know why anyone would pay over a few hundred for this unless they want an exact replacement for an old truck.

One interesting point to consider is the Leaf Nismo, the racing version of the Leaf. By reports it is said to have the same drivetrain and battery system reconfigured for racing. The main difference is the car weighs almost 1000 lbs. less so it is a lot more responsive. Interestingly, though, the top speed is still around 90 MPH. You'd think that if they could make it faster with just some programming or other minor adjustments they would have.

So I say just buy a Tesla if you want to feel like you are going to warp when you hit the accelerator.

nader said:

TEG said:

The Leaf wasn't intended to be a performance car.

Click to expand...

Mwah ha ha! Neither was a civic or a focus or neon but I've seen street and strip versions of both that are pretty impressive.

After a suspension upgrade the lack of power and inferior tires became immediately noticeable. Tires and brakes are pretty easy. Motor/controller/battery etc are a whole new world for me.

Click to expand...

Ah, right, remember folks, nader has taken his LEAF out to Laguna Seca raceway. He has track times to improve!

It's not a performance EV and trying to make it one is silly. If you dropped an ACP 130 pound drive system in a LEAF it would smoke the LEAF race car. I can't believe they are calling it a "race" car because the performance numbers are on par with some home conversions. It's a low weight LEAF with a very low performance drive system. What were they thinking?

SierraQ said:

..snip...So I say just buy a Tesla if you want to feel like you are going to warp when you hit the accelerator.

Click to expand...

Nope, the Fisker Karma will smoke the Tesla, Dual 150KW Rear wheel motors, in performance mode is combines its 23KW Lithium pack (50 miles in pure EV mode) with the motor generator. 0-60 in 6.3 seconds in hybrid mode.

http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us/karma/features/performance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course we are talking about $95K entry level, or $109K for what you'll really want, expensive,but worth it, if you can afford it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Karma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us/karma/overview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I say do what you love. There is no shortage of kids willing to put tens of thousands into their Civics. This always freaks out the engineer bean counting sorts. Custom mods and fab work are usually not about cost, practicality or ROI. It's about inspiration, exploration and individuality. I think it's great the LEAF is creating this sort of enthusiasm. The grey haired pocket protector crowd should simply step aside and let the FUN happen.

TRONZ said:

I say do what you love. There is no shortage of kids willing to put tens of thousands into their Civics. This always freaks out the engineer bean counting sorts. Custom mods and fab work are usually not about cost, practicality or ROI. It's about inspiration, exploration and individuality. I think it's great the LEAF is creating this sort of enthusiasm. The grey haired pocket protector crowd should simply step aside and let the FUN happen.

Click to expand...

Well said!

mitch672 said:

SierraQ said:

..snip...So I say just buy a Tesla if you want to feel like you are going to warp when you hit the accelerator.

Click to expand...

Nope, the Fisker Karma will smoke the Tesla, Dual 150KW Rear wheel motors, in performance mode is combines its 23KW Lithium pack (50 miles in pure EV mode) with the motor generator. 0-60 in 6.3 seconds in hybrid mode.

Click to expand...

Uh, the Roadster does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds, the Model S is supposed to do it in 5.6. The Fisker is also much heavier than either Tesla.

jkirkebo said:

mitch672 said:

SierraQ said:

..snip...So I say just buy a Tesla if you want to feel like you are going to warp when you hit the accelerator.

Click to expand...

Nope, the Fisker Karma will smoke the Tesla, Dual 150KW Rear wheel motors, in performance mode is combines its 23KW Lithium pack (50 miles in pure EV mode) with the motor generator. 0-60 in 6.3 seconds in hybrid mode.

Click to expand...

Uh, the Roadster does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds, the Model S is supposed to do it in 5.6. The Fisker is also much heavier than either Tesla.

Click to expand...

LOL- Just goes to show you how 2X the power and a gas motor can be slow. What does that beast weigh? 0-6 in even 5 seconds is slow for a car with two 150kw motors and an ice.

TRONZ said:

I say do what you love. There is no shortage of kids willing to put tens of thousands into their Civics. This always freaks out the engineer bean counting sorts. Custom mods and fab work are usually not about cost, practicality or ROI. It's about inspiration, exploration and individuality. I think it's great the LEAF is creating this sort of enthusiasm. The grey haired pocket protector crowd should simply step aside and let the FUN happen.

Click to expand...

I say make all the body and suspension modes as possible. Don't expect much in the drive system as the pack is a limiting factor. It is easy drive more power to the motor but the pack cooling and life will be an issue. If you want a performance EV then wait a bit.

EVDRIVER said:

LOL- Just goes to show you how 2X the power and a gas motor can be slow. What does that beast weigh? 0-6 in even 5 seconds is slow for a car with two 150kw motors and an ice.

Click to expand...

We are splitting hairs now. 5.6 or 6.3 are both good. I know you WILL be able to buy a Fisker Karma in 2012, and even take delivery, fyi, they are in the same price range. Tesla Model S? no guarantees, they have overpromised and underdelivered so far. The Fisker is probabably more practical for now, until we see how Teslas "300 mile" range pack works.

mitch672 said:

EVDRIVER said:

LOL- Just goes to show you how 2X the power and a gas motor can be slow. What does that beast weigh? 0-6 in even 5 seconds is slow for a car with two 150kw motors and an ice.

Click to expand...

We are splitting hairs now. 5.6 or 6.3 are both good. I know you WILL be able to buy a Fisker Karma in 2012, and even take delivery, fyi, they are in the same price range. Tesla Model S? no guarantees, they have overpromised and underdelivered so far. The Fisker is probabably more practical for now, until we see how Teslas "300 mile" range pack works.

Click to expand...

Who said 5.3. I'm saying the Tesla is far faster with less than half the power. The difference between even 5.0 and 5.6 is quite a bit and 5.6 to 5.3 is a huge difference. The Karma is a dog for its specs if they are accurate.

EVDRIVER said:

If you want a performance EV then wait a bit.

Click to expand...

YUP :!:

mitch672 said:

Tesla Model S? no guarantees, they have overpromised and underdelivered so far.

Click to expand...

How is that? They've met every target date for development so far. They still seem poised to meet the rest of the targets for both production and performance. Where have you felt they under-delivered?

palmermd said:

mitch672 said:

Tesla Model S? no guarantees, they have overpromised and underdelivered so far.

Click to expand...

How is that? They've met every target date for development so far. They still seem poised to meet the rest of the targets for both production and performance. Where have you felt they under-delivered?

Click to expand...

oh in the several delays to market. Dan Neil has a 1 Million dollar bet with Elon Musk that they will not be on time...

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/26/elon-musk-bets-dan-neil-1-million-he-can-get-the-tesla-model-s/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just saying, the Fisker is way closer to delivery than the Model S, so what if its heavier, its still a very nice overall car.

I wish Tesla luck, and if it really will be availble in 2012, I would wait to buy one, however, putting down a $40K deposit to reserve one of the 300 mile, limited production of 1,000 signature editions, is probably more than I want to spend (that will be a $90K car if its a dollar) I just filled out my RAQ for a Leaf, that shows how I feel about the Model S

The Fisker is really very nice, but also in that very pricey range as well, and I already own a hybrid

mitch672 said:

oh in the several delays to market. Dan Neil has a 1 Million dollar bet with Elon Musk that they will not be on time...

Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue with you on which car is better for who, thats you own personal decision, but there have been zero delays to market for the Model S. Perhaps you are thinking of the 3-4 delays announced for the Fisker.