Motor upgrades

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nader

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Can someone educate me about the possibilities of a motor upgrade in the future? I know Nissan is making their own motor so it's unlikely that some aftermarket motor will just bolt right up. Aside from fitment issues what are some of the limitations of the existing setup? Is it as simple as swapping in a higher KW motor and reprogramming the controller? I recall hearing something about pack voltage being a limiting factor for increasing power output. Please educate me.
 
I think most people are going to ride out the warranty period before going anywhere near drivetrain mods. I am sure engine mods will happen but only after people have a good feel for pack durability. It's not like ordering a crate motor. This is pretty new and unprecedented stuff... with faster EV's on the way.
 
Its an electric car, everything works as a system.. if the battery cant provide the power then a bigger motor will do you no good.

But motors/inverters/batteries can be overdriven easily, just a matter of programming. You could double the power for a few seconds and smoke those front tires.
 
So I view the battery as a gas tank. If I have a higher power motor the tank runs dry quicker. I also understand that a given gauge wire can only delivery so much amperage, just like a fuel line can only deliver so much volume at a given pressure. So what goes into upgrading the motor? What other components would have to be upgraded?
 
Assuming that the battery pack can handle higher discharge, I think the upgrades would start with:
#1: More / better IGBTs in the inverter ( = more cost ) to get higher current through.
#2: Better heat dissipation for inverter and motor.

Some of the heat removal methods could probably be done externally on the motor, but at some point they would have to make fundamental changes inside to handle higher current levels.

It is all "do-able". Just a matter of costs and time. Plus with more power you would need to start thinking about other upgrades in the vehicle - better brakes, stiffer suspension, stickier tires, etc...

The Leaf wasn't intended to be a performance car.
 
TEG said:
The Leaf wasn't intended to be a performance car.

Mwah ha ha! Neither was a civic or a focus or neon but I've seen street and strip versions of both that are pretty impressive.

After a suspension upgrade the lack of power and inferior tires became immediately noticeable. Tires and brakes are pretty easy. Motor/controller/battery etc are a whole new world for me.
 
There are basically 0 performance mods for the Tesla Roadster and it has been out for a few years now, and certainly is a performance car where people would want to make it go quicker (if they could figure out how!)

The EV systems are complicated, proprietary and closed enough that performance mods haven't been happening.

With that said, I bet you could "chip" a Leaf and make it perform better if you knew how to read and recompile millions of lines of machine code. There are probably plenty of trade-offs where you could sacrifice things like battery life, and foul condition safety in exchange for more responsiveness. There might even been factory modes already hidden in there if only we knew the magic codes to unlock them.
 
you might want to check out the "Zilla" motor controller from Rudman: http://www.manzanitamicro.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or watch some of the videos from these guys, who have 90 minute "EV conversion webcasts", the shows are very interesting. They talk a lot about differrent motor controllers (making fun of the Zilla and Hairball in their latest video as well). This stuff is EXPENSIVE, for example, the motor controller he talks about is in the $3500 range, and liquid cooled, the lithium batteries they use run 20-25K per car, the motors run $3-5K, etc. this is not an inexpensive hobby, if you have to ask "how much is this gong to cost?" you probably don't want to know the answer.

http://www.evtv.me/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
The Zilla controller is for DC motors, and the Leaf uses an AC motor, so it is somewhat apples to oranges.

If you want to build an EV drag race car ( < 10 sec quarter mile times are possible ) then a 2000amp Zilla plus giant DC motors can get the job done.
 
TEG said:
The Zilla controller is for DC motors, and the Leaf uses an AC motor, so it is somewhat apples to oranges.

If you want to build an EV drag race car ( < 10 sec quarter mile times are possible ) then a 2000amp Zilla plus giant DC motors can get the job done.

I'm pointing people at the information, if you are going to replace the motor in the Leaf, the choice of AC or DC isn't a deal breaker, because most likely you are going to have to rip out the motor controller anyway. Just pointers to the videos for ideas, and see what components they use for performance EV's, was the general idea. Probably not going to happen until some Leafs start hitting the junk yards anyway.
 
nader said:
Can someone educate me about the possibilities of a motor upgrade in the future? I know Nissan is making their own motor so it's unlikely that some aftermarket motor will just bolt right up. Aside from fitment issues what are some of the limitations of the existing setup? Is it as simple as swapping in a higher KW motor and reprogramming the controller? I recall hearing something about pack voltage being a limiting factor for increasing power output. Please educate me.

The electric motor and battery work together much like the mechanical displacement parts of an engine (pistons, valves and crankshaft) or "electric motor" in an EV and the energy feed / flow parts (fuel injection / carb / blower / turbo coupled with the exhaust) or "battery" in an EV. You may be able to push more energy through the electric motor with a larger battery and inverter but simply putting a larger electric motor and not supplying the additional battery power (not size of the gas tank) will probably be disappointing. Now adding a second battery in parallel or series with the corresponding inverter and electric motor would offer the ability to increase performance. It could be accomplished with a booster battery (in series) and upgrading the inverter transistors (IGBT or MOSFET) to drive more power into the existing "electric motor" - i.e. turbo charge or blower on an ICE.

Another way to look at the power system is to consider a different way to upgrade an ICE. For example, when upgrading a 4 cylinder car engine, why not just add four more cylinders and use the existing fuel / air intake and the existing exhaust system? This is what replacing only the "electric motor" in an EV seems like to me.
 
Looking back into the history of tuner cars. Engine "upgrades" tend to happen when the manufacturer introduces later iterations of an existing model w/ a better engine (i.e.: K-series engine in the Honda Civic). Sometimes a manufacturer's engine of another model could be use (i.e.: VQ-series engines in Nissan S-chassis). Even more rare is the use of a popular engine that gets shoe-horned into just about anything (i.e.: GM's LS-series). Currently the only other EV produced w/ considerably more power than the Leaf is the Tesla Roadster. Might be a while before we will see any significant increase in power coming out of modded Leafs.
 
Take the drive train from here....

http://www.rimac-automobili.com/concept_one/performance-10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or just talk half to run the front wheels on the Leaf.
 
This is the second thread on this. It's pointless to upgrade the motor on the LEAF as the motor in the car now has the capability to output more power and the inverter may only be software restricted. The bigger point is the ability of the pack to supply more current for enough performance to make it worth while and the extra heat on the non-cooled pack. Besides that the LEAF is basically a A-B transport car and below average in handling so a little more power would be nice but anything serious would be a waste of investment to change any parts. Buy something else.
 
http://www.wrightspeed.com/circuit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
I don't see the need of upgrading the Leaf motor when it's more than plenty powerful enough already. If you want to do this for racing purposes, the limitation will be in the tires and suspension first, before the motor.

And by the time you will have spent all the money on your upgrade, if it's even a possibility, you might as well spend that money buying something like the Tesla Roadster, which is more fitting as a race car.
 
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