Interest in lowering springs

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MrFish

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
156
Location
Southern California, IE
Greetings,
I have been talking to the Eibach company about getting them to make a set of lowering springs for the Leaf. So far they have not received many requests and are hesitant to invest the time in making them right now. I would like to see how many Leaf owners here would be interested in them if they move forward. I'm also sure that we can debate the pros and cons of lowering the Leaf. :cool:
 
I'd be interested. Would also be interested in some struts/shocks with more low speed damping to go with them, too. Something similar to stock WRX would be good in terms of damping rates.

There was a company in San Diego that does springs and seemed OK with doing low volumes - I recall them doing springs for the Prius - need to try to figure out who they were.
 
I am working with a company for adjustable coil-overs. The only concern I would have would be changing the spring rate towards the stiff side while retaining the factory shocks. The car does seem on the borderline of under-damped now and an increased spring rate would only make that worse; I do not want a bouncy ride. With a minimal increase in spring rate I do not see it being a problem. I might be interested in springs as doing measurements I think we can fit a set of shocks for a Versa under the car as well with a higher dampening (or adjustables like Koni, etc). I would already have a Versa shock/lowering spring set-up under my car but the increased weight would put it too low. I am only looking to go 1"-1.5" lower than stock. Going lower could put the car at risk on scraping and the pack would be the first thing to hit. Also, going lower than that will require a solution to dial out negative camber in the front.

I would like a ride height/fender gap like the prototype car had from the first tour:

IMGP0499.JPG
 
Company I was thinking of earlier was B&G Suspension.

Good comments, Skywagon - also not looking for anything extreme - my previous car was a '03 WRX with mild lowering springs, wouldn't want the LEAF to be quite that stiff but if it rode similar to that on stock bits or just slightly stiffer that'd be very good. I suspect some some of the guys here who came from BMWs would be emulate the ride from those cars.

About 1.5" of lowering would be a good target.

If Versa suspension bits fit (are they an exact match aside from spring rate/length?) - does anyone make coilovers for that? Then it'd be easy to swap out springs for the appropriate rate/length since they're standard sizes.

EDIT: Looks like quite a few manufactures make coilovers for the late model Versa: Tein, D2 Racing, KSport, Tanabe at least...

I'm not worried about negative camber - generally strut suspensions don't pick up that much negative camber (I would welcome about 1* negative camber) and if it does end up with too much - camber bolt can take care of that easily.

What are the stock alignment specs?

Skywagon said:
I would like a ride height/fender gap like the prototype car had from the first tour:
Just about perfect - someone needs to start taking hub-center to fender lip measurements. :)

EDIT 2: Forgot about the rear beam axle - not going to get coilovers on back there so springs/shocks are the only option.

2011 Nissan Leaf: Suspension Walkaround
 
Yeah, they call them coilovers but they are just adjustable perch springs in the rear and adjustable separate shocks. And yes, I should know sometime soon if the Versa set-up will fit with different rate springs. Ksport is local and they think they have the information they needed from Nissan to set-up a nice system (yes, direct from Nissan engineering).

I would like 0.5 to 1 degree of negative camber in the front to help with turn-in. It is not my sportscar as I build other cars for that purpose or I ride my motorcycles but I would like a little more turn-in for street driving.
 
Yep, I find the car to be under damped, particularly in the rear. Stiffer rear shocks alone would go a big ways toward helping with the bungy affect... I'd prefer to go that route first.

Considering that the Versa is a much lighter car, I don't think shocks for it would work even if they happened to fit.

drees said:
Would also be interested in some struts/shocks with more low speed damping to go with them, too. Something similar to stock WRX would be good in terms of damping rates.
 
Skywagon said:
Yeah, they call them coilovers but they are just adjustable perch springs in the rear and adjustable separate shocks.
Ah - google has shown me how this tends to work - looks simple enough. Do the perches tend to need to be bolted to either the spring pad to avoid falling out at full droop?

Skywagon said:
And yes, I should know sometime soon if the Versa set-up will fit with different rate springs. Ksport is local and they think they have the information they needed from Nissan to set-up a nice system (yes, direct from Nissan engineering).
Nice - Ksport makes good stuff.

Skywagon said:
I would like 0.5 to 1 degree of negative camber in the front to help with turn-in. It is not my sportscar as I build other cars for that purpose or I ride my motorcycles but I would like a little more turn-in for street driving.
Anything in that range would be good for the street. Would be nice if more caster could be dialed in - that would improve steering feel and turn-in as well. Gotta find out what the stock alignment specs are - suspect the settings are very mild.

Edit: If the information in this post is correct - it appears that it may have enough negative camber dialed in already, but a little more never hurt. :)

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3989&p=98414&hilit=alignment#p98414
 
drees said:
I'd be interested.
Now that I am driving the LEAF, I am also further interested in a tighter driving experience. I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I think it needs wheels and suspension changes. I am going to call Scott at Fontana Nissan to see what he says...
 
I also contacted Eibach ad had asked them to contact me if they were interested in developing something. My only fear of doing just springs will be that the shocks will quickly die leading to a crappy ride. There Pro-System (springs and dampers) would be ideal. I ahve had great luck with those kits in the past. Factory like ride quality with a lower stance. I believe they use Sachs dampers for some applications.

I also too the car to KW Suspension (also ST) and they put it on the rack. Interest was minimal but they did say that were open to doing custom work. I have also reached out to Ground Control and I am sure their kit of parts could build adjustable springs for the front and rear. Again dampers are the issue. Who can make custom dampers in low volume? Back in my Honda days I recall a Wings West Prelude with custom Penske shocks/struts.

I am looking to replicate the ride of a late model VW GTI. That car is very well dampened yet not overly stiff.
 
Are these changes purely for the looks of the vehicle or does anybody have any data that would indicate a slightly longer range (i.e. less wind resistance)? I suspect that the LEAF has a somewhat "squirrely" feel especially in wind is because they have limited the amount of "toe in" in order to reduce scrubbing and increase mileage.
 
The suspension changes are primarily to firm up the suspension a bit so that it will handle a bit more predictably and "float" a bit less. Many feel that they have less control over the vehicle when the suspension is too soft.

1-2" lower is not a significant amount but will slightly improve the visual appeal - the car appears a bit "lifted" stock.

I doubt that there will be any significant or measurable aerodynamic benefit, though in theory it should help. Maybe the guys at ecomodder or cleanmpg have measured the benefit on other cars. Since the bottom of the LEAF is already very clean - most of the benefit will come from tucking the wheels/tires into the fenders a bit more.
 
drees said:
I'd be interested.
Ditto.

drees said:
Would also be interested in some struts/shocks with more low speed damping to go with them, too.
Ditto. In fact, I'd only need stiffer dampers; I don't really need shorter/stiffer springs that much. Less body lean and a lower look are both nice, but body lean is not what bothers me about the LEAF's handling, and I don't really need a lower stance.

I don't mind the tall soft spring and copious body lean, handling-wise. It's toss-up between those and the tires as to which is the limiting factor. I do agree that the LEAF can use more damping (note: "damping", NOT "dampening"!!! Sorry, pet peeve of mine).

drees said:
EDIT 2: Forgot about the rear beam axle - not going to get coilovers on back there so springs/shocks are the only option.
Just to clarify: a torsion beam suspension does not necessarily requires a separate-spring-and-damper set-up (and thus not suitable for "real" coilovers). It happens that the LEAF has separate spring and damper ("shock") on its torsion beam, but there are cars with torsion beam rear suspension that have concentric spring and damper set-up, and thus can accept "real" coilovers. For instance, watercooled VWs up until about mid-2000s.
 
Skywagon said:
I would like 0.5 to 1 degree of negative camber in the front to help with turn-in.
drees said:
Anything in that range would be good for the street.
drees said:
Edit: If the information in this post is correct - it appears that it may have enough negative camber dialed in already, but a little more never hurt. :)

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3989&p=98414&hilit=alignment#p98414
I have no clue whether/how much negative camber would help with turn-in. On my VWs, I run more negative camber in the front to make the front sticks more/understeers less (since it would retain more negative camber); more negative camber does not seem to do much for turn-in response. For quicker turn-in, I run a small amount of toe-out in the front. Excess toe-out causes "wandering" at speeds, but my experience with my VWs is that with a small amount of toe-out (0.5 degrees or less per side) there's some wandering but it's barely detectable.

I don't know how much is "enough negative camber" I since my experience with VWs most likely won't apply to the LEAF, although they both have MacPherson strut front suspension and torsion beam rear suspension (up to the Mk IV's), given the differences in geometry, weight, weight distribution, etc. If I want to try a different alignment, I'd need to play around with different alignment settings. For example, on my A3 GTI, I ran -2.1 camber and 0.4' toe-out. For me, the jury is out on whether making the camber more negative would make the LEAF stick any better in turns, ditto adding more toe-out to improve turn-in response, because any alignment changes may just be lost in the under-performance of the tires. It's hard to say.

drees said:
Gotta find out what the stock alignment specs are - suspect the settings are very mild.
As indicated, the LEAF has about -1 degree camber and just about straight-ahead toe. It would appear to be "very mild" but that's just a guess, since there are so many other variables.
 
ERG4ALL said:
Are these changes purely for the looks of the vehicle or does anybody have any data that would indicate a slightly longer range (i.e. less wind resistance)?
I wouldn't mind a less severe 4x4 look for my LEAF, but appearance is secondary to me. Ditto range, when it comes to suspension tweaks. I kinda doubt if there are any measurable changes in range resulting from a suspension change. A lowered LEAF might have less aerodynamics drag (though I don't know why; a lowered LEAF still has the same cross sectional area), but I wonder if it's measurable.

I do want a better suspension for the 5% of the time when I "get into it" a bit in the twisties, and for when things go pear shaped and I need to get out of Dodge to get out of the way of a Dodge.

ERG4ALL said:
I suspect that the LEAF has a somewhat "squirrely" feel especially in wind is because they have limited the amount of "toe in" in order to reduce scrubbing and increase mileage.
That's a very interesting observation about less toe-in to increase efficiency. I don't have any complaints about the LEAF's behavior in day-to-day driving. It feels squirrely in the wind probably both from the soft suspension as well as from the broad-side-of-a-barn profile.
 
Note, a "coilover" is a device that combines the coil spring with a shock absorber in one unit, mostly used in McPherson strut suspension systems.

If you guys are interested in increasing range first pump up your tires to max sidewall (and beyond if you are not chicken).. then see how it feels and handles before you start changing components.
 
Yes. I am interested as well.

I prefer to keep the factory shocks and have a vendor tune the lowering springs to factory shocks for a consistent and tight ride.

Most people forget that there is still an "installation cost" and a "wheel alignment cost" that needs to be factored into this project. Therefore, I felt a Leaf "coilover solution" as a product would be more expensive.

Coilovers are great for more customization, like user configurable height and other factors which could turn your Leaf into a weekend track car and reset back to daily driver on week days. But, unless there is a comparable cost to coilovers and installation costs, only then I would I consider it.
 
aqn said:
I don't know how much is "enough negative camber" I since my experience with VWs most likely won't apply to the LEAF, although they both have MacPherson strut front suspension and torsion beam rear suspension (up to the Mk IV's), given the differences in geometry, weight, weight distribution, etc. If I want to try a different alignment, I'd need to play around with different alignment settings. For example, on my A3 GTI, I ran -2.1 camber and 0.4' toe-out. For me, the jury is out on whether making the camber more negative would make the LEAF stick any better in turns, ditto adding more toe-out to improve turn-in response, because any alignment changes may just be lost in the under-performance of the tires. It's hard to say.
I would bet money that more negative camber will improve grip - at least up to 2* like you ran on your GTI even on stock tires. On my WRX I had a big sway bars and stiffer springs and even at 1* it could have used more camber looking at the tire wear. The fact that the rear stock spec between 1-2* verifies this. Get the fronts set the same as the rear (about 1.5*) and I'd bet it'd be pretty balanced.

Herm said:
If you guys are interested in increasing range first pump up your tires to max sidewall (and beyond if you are not chicken).. then see how it feels and handles before you start changing components.
Already done - 44 front and 42 rear. Improves road feel slightly from how it was delivered (about 39 psi all around) but doesn't alter handling feel to any noticeable degree.

Like the others, I feel the biggest deficiency is the lack of low speed damping in the stock shocks - things can get a bit floaty over undulations in the road.
 
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