AndyH
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Level 3 Charging Updates - SAE Meetings

Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:23 am

The Society of Automotive Engineers' Hybrid J1772 Task Force met on June 22nd to review progress on electric and plug-in hybrid charging and electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE).

Attendees included at least reps from the SAE, TEPCO, Tesla, BMW, LS Cable, Plug Smart, CCI, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI).

An important point: The J1772 Surface Vehicle Recommended Practice includes alternating current (AC) Level 1 (L1) and 2 (L2) provisions, as well as direct current (DC) Level 3 (L3) charging. The task force has completed the L1 and L2 recommended practice and connectors and equipment are on the streets.

The focus now includes fast-tracking the L3 portion of the specification. The L3 implementation being defined by the J1772 Task Force is not the CHAdeMO/TEPCO L3 connection currently used in Japan and with which the Leaf is fitted.

L1/L2:

- The J1772 recommended practice includes a provision for locking the connector into the vehicle during charging. This is to deter charge cable theft and also parking lot cable hijacking. The decision to implement a locking provision is up to the auto manufacturer. [At least one manufacturer rep was happy to learn about the existence of the provision...]

- By the 27th of July, the EPRI should have the J1772 EVSE test documents finalized. [The test procedures have procedures for testing both EVSE with continuous current adjustment capability, as well as EVSE devices that have 'discrete' charge levels and/or settings.]

L3:

- The timeline for the 'L3 add-on' has slipped at least a few months. The target to finish the DC portion of the J1772 standard is December 2010. The task force team is very aware that vehicles will be 'on the streets' in the US in December...

[note: Considering that vehicles will be shipping with CHAdeMO connectors around the time the DC portion of J1772 is being ratified, and considering the momentum behind the Japanese L3 standard, it appears that J1772 L3 is not going to be a factor in the first generation EVs. Will this create a VHS/Beta decision for the industry later?]

- One critical part of L3 charging is communication between the car and battery charger. A number of methods are being evaluated, including signaling over the DC power lines to the car, and signaling 'on top of' the L1/L2 pilot signal. Nissan is working on the required L3 communications messages.

- The DC L3 standard is defining the duty cycle for the connector as 20 minutes 'on' and 10 minutes off. [note: It wasn't clear if this was the duty cycle repeated for a single vehicle, or if it was based on a 20 minute charge for a single vehicle followed by 10 minutes to disconnect, move, and connect the next vehicle to the charger.]

The next meeting was originally scheduled for July 27th, but will be rescheduled as many of the Task Force members will be attending the Plug-In 2010 conference. <- link...

This document from Feb '10 gives an overview of L1 and L2, as well as a comparison of the J1772 DC plan and the JARI/TEPCO/CHAdeMO L3 interface. http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/earthobs ... Kissel.pdf

Here's a link to the SAE works in progress page for plug-in vehicle standards: http://www.sae.org/servlets/works/docum ... tPage=wIpS
Last edited by AndyH on Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Bicster
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:53 am

Glacial progress.

Thanks for the update :)

It seems evident that J1772 L3 charging will use the J1772 connector (which has always been their plan) and it's quite possible nobody will ever implement it.
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evnow
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:25 am

Bicster wrote:It seems evident that J1772 L3 charging will use the J1772 connector (which has always been their plan) and it's quite possible nobody will ever implement it.
Yes - though it makes sense that we have just one port for all types of charging ...
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garygid
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:20 pm

A max of 20 minutes continuous charge is not acceptable.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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evnow
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:24 pm

garygid wrote:A max of 20 minutes continuous charge is not acceptable.
Yes. I wonder how the market will evolve. They need to get people moving - so as to serve maximum # of cars - yet allow us to do our work as we charge ...
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AndyH
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:36 pm

garygid wrote:A max of 20 minutes continuous charge is not acceptable.
Can you please explain what you think the 20 minutes means? How much current for that 20 minutes? What type of batteries? What's the state of charge going in and then after the 20 minutes? What's the pack temperature?

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:42 pm

AndyH wrote:
garygid wrote:A max of 20 minutes continuous charge is not acceptable.
Can you please explain what you think the 20 minutes means? How much current for that 20 minutes? What type of batteries? What's the state of charge going in and then after the 20 minutes? What's the pack temperature?

I think that is cigarette lighter fast charging. Clearly limited for safety:)

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garygid
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:32 pm

Assuming it takes 30 minutes to get an 80% charge, then 20 minutes gives me only a 53% charge!

So, at 60 freeway miles per full charge, this 20-minute Quick-Charge would only get me 30 miles further, ... sad!

I guess one would like to get enough e-fuel to get to the next Quick-Charger.

Driving for 30 minutes, charging for 20, possibly waiting for 10 to 30 (or more) minutes. Still, the L3 charging will occsionally be a great help.
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AndyH
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:18 am

I'm not an EE so that might be the limiting factor, but I cannot tell anyone their end state of charge without knowing the starting SoC, charge rate, and time.

Help me out, please?

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evnow
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Re: Level 3 Charging Update - 22Jun10 SAE Meeting

Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:33 am

Assuming min SOC - it takes 27 minutes to fill Leaf to 80%.

Anyway, we don't know what that 20/10 cycle means at all. Any limitation as to how much time a vehicle can charge should be set by the charger provider rather than SAE - so, I don't think SAE will worry about that. May be they are saying - since fast charge generates a lot of heat - a charger should be capable of 20 minutes heating, 10 minutes cooling cycles ?
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