gtleaf
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:29 am

That's what I figured as well and I'll have to see what happens with future chargers. What made me key in on this was that the EVgo charger started to taper off when my car was only at 50% and by the time it reached 60% it was only charging at 22 kW. The other charger I mentioned stayed at 30 kW all the way up to about 90%. In both cases, I started charging at about 20% left on my battery with the same battery temp and outdoor temp.

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:15 am

Just noticed that there are over 6000 new Chademo cars in Canada this year so far between the Outlander (3500) and Leaf (2500).
If you include the Tesla’s as being Chademo ready (some stations have adapters available), that puts Chademo way ahead of CCS adoption in Canada still.

As the Outlander and Leaf don’t sell as well in the US, it still feels like shaky road ahead for Chademo, though the overall footprint is still expanding.
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Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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SageBrush
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:41 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:15 am

If you include the Teslas as being Chademo ready (some stations have adapters available),
What fraction of CHAdeMO locations in Canada are Tesla ready ?
Are they identifiable on any popular route planner software ?

As an aside, my routine Supercharging behavior is to leave when the charging drops below ~ 90 kW for a total 10 - 15 minute stop. A stop at a CHAdeMO station would hopefully be a destination or extended stop. As a 'fuel and go' stop it would be annoying.

By the way, is the 62 kWh LEAF+ in the tier 1 or tier 2 pricing at EA ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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webeleafowners
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Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:14 am

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:41 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:15 am

If you include the Teslas as being Chademo ready (some stations have adapters available),
What fraction of CHAdeMO locations in Canada are Tesla ready ?
Are they identifiable on any popular route planner software ?

As an aside, my routine Supercharging behavior is to leave when the charging drops below ~ 90 kW for a total 10 - 15 minute stop. A stop at a CHAdeMO station would hopefully be a destination or extended stop. As a 'fuel and go' stop it would be annoying.

By the way, is the 62 kWh LEAF+ in the tier 1 or tier 2 pricing at EA ?
Good morning Sagebrush. BC may be a little different in terms of Tesla coverage but if you travel in BC with a Tesla and rely only on Superchargers your travel area will be limited. Chademo CCS coverage is significantly greater than Tesla Supercharger. And Chademo CCS is growing considerably faster than Tesla. It’s pretty much doubled every year for 3 years. The entire central north interior is being surveyed as we speak and some of the wrenches are already showing on the plug share App. Historically those wrenches turn into real stations within 6 months.

Where we live in the North Okanagan there were 2 Chademo/CCS stations within a 75 km radius. Now there are 10 with 4 more under construction.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:46 am

My Leaf Plus has always charged at the lowest price tier for charging at EA stations, though I have only used a few stations. As my latest trips have either been outside of a fast charger city (ex: door county) or not more that 240 miles one way recently, I haven’t used an EA charger in a couple months.

Given the small number of new Leafs, maybe Nissan could sweet talk Tesla into letting them use the Super Charger network with an adapter. Some investment required of course. The trade could be use of Dealer based Chademos to extend coverage map (low cost to give dealers an adapter). Nissan need something to re-energize their base.

50 kilowatts may be slow, but if just needing a few miles or stopping for a proper lunch, it’s fast enough.
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SageBrush
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:04 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:46 am
Given the small number of new Leafs, maybe Nissan could sweet talk Tesla into letting them use the Super Charger network with an adapter. Some investment required of course. The trade could be use of Dealer based Chademos to extend coverage map (low cost to give dealers an adapter). Nissan need something to re-energize their base.
Tesla has repeated the same thing over the years: they are open to partners using the Supercharger network contingent on two things: investment; and 2, the network quality is unimpaired. Nissan will have to improve charging speeds before Tesla would consider them as a partner. Now that Tesla is building 250 kW Superchargers the bar for partnership has spiked -- I imagine up to 150 kW cars. Nissan will have to build 400 Amp (400 V) cars. Since they just recently upped the tech to 200 Amps they are no where close for now.

You also have to keep in mind that Nissan would have to R&D an adapter and solve the billing issues. That seems **really** unlikely given the tiny size of the US market. If Nissan is going to try and play nice with another network while staying with CHAdeMO then CCS is a *much* more attractive candidate in order to stay competitive in Europe.

Nissan has a lot of CHAdeMO inertia in Japan, none in Europe, and a tad in the USA. I'm not sure about China. I'll be surprised if Nissan does not decide to build EVs with CHAdeMO for Japan and with CCS for the USA and Europe.
Last edited by SageBrush on Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
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WetEV
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:44 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:46 am
Given the small number of new Leafs, maybe Nissan could sweet talk Tesla into letting them use the Super Charger network with an adapter.
Unlikely.

Tesla gains competitive advantage from proprietary charging stations and connectors. Tesla wouldn't give up this advantage cheaply.

Only once there is enough non-proprietary changing will proprietary charging connectors become a disadvantage.
WetEV
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Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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SageBrush
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:02 am

WetEV wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:44 am
Only once there is enough faster, cheaper non-proprietary changing will proprietary charging connectors become a disadvantage.
FTFY
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:51 pm

Do you think Europe is close to that? With Ionity, it seems that the Supercharger network in Europe is pretty much not worth continuing, no?
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
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Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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SageBrush
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Re: Department of Energy - Chademo vs. CCS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:12 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:51 pm
Do you think Europe is close to that? With Ionity, it seems that the Supercharger network in Europe is pretty much not worth continuing, no?
No

For 1, the Ionity network is something over 100 locations. The Tesla network is much more expansive
2, Ionity currently offers a promotional 8 Euro per session but that will not last. To date no other competing network has come close to Tesla in cost to charge.
3, Tesla has never tried to profit from the Supercharger network so the future could hypothetically mean that Tesla cools its heels in building more but the network already built is a sunk cost.
4, The Ionity locations are typically 4 -8 stations while Tesla is building up to 40 stations per location. That should tell you something about demand.

Check out the Supercharger map
https://supercharge.info/map

Europe has the best Supercharger coverage in the world
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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