120 Trickle Charge - How many amps?

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Azrich

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
533
Location
Tucson, AZ
Solar panel people are installing inverter, etc. right now. I asked them about also installing a 110 outlet in the garage for the trickle charge in case the Blink charger is not working.

Can anyone tell me how many amps this designated 110 outlet needs to be?

Thanks.
 
Thanks, smkettner. That is exactly what the electrician needed to know. He'll be pulling wires tomorrow and finishing the work so he knows what to bring.

The panels look great - just installed today. Already a neighbor has voiced their displeasure about how they are higher than the parapets on the roof. Oh well, I think they are beautiful!
 
max draw probably wont exceed more than about 13-14 amps. now math says if 14 amps were drawn full charge would be about 16 hours if linear which its not.

since Nissan advertises 20 hours to recharge, that would be an average 12 amps but its nonlinearity would suggest that it might go as high as 13 to 13½ or so, then trickle the last 60-90 mins to prevent overcharging
 
The 110 charger is safe to use on a 15A circuit, so it will not pull any more than 12A (NEC/UL rules). As smkettner said - install a 20A circuit to get bit of extra head room. At 12A, 14 GA wire loses about 0.43 watts/foot while 12 GA wire loses about 0.27 watts/foot to resistance not to mention you'll be much more likely to accidentally trip a 15A breaker than a 20A breaker should you ever plug something else into the circuit.

BTW - you need to post some pics of your new PV install. ;)
 
Azrich said:
The panels look great - just installed today. Already a neighbor has voiced their displeasure about how they are higher than the parapets on the roof. Oh well, I think they are beautiful!
Congratulations! Your neighbor must have poor taste. I think solar panels are sleek and sexy, and the intricate patterns of the crystalline structure is very beautiful. Anyway, I don't think anyone can argue that your electric bills will soon look a lot nicer :)
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
since Nissan advertises 20 hours to recharge, that would be an average 12 amps but its nonlinearity would suggest that it might go as high as 13 to 13½ or so, then trickle the last 60-90 mins to prevent overcharging
I don't follow your math. 24kWh/20 hours = 1200 watts. 1200 watts/120v = 10 amps average, not 12.

I agree it is probably nonlinear, but the max would be no more than 12.
 
They're being very conservative in making it a 10 amp charger. I would think they could safely up it to 15 amps.

A vacuum cleaner uses 12 amps.
An electric heater uses 13 amps, and may run for hours at a time.
A microwave oven uses a whopping 18 amps.

All of these appliances can plug into a standard 120V outlet. And it's not unusual for them to all be running at the same time.

Yet, ironically, the largest appliance of all sips a paltry 10 amps.
 
planet4ever said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
since Nissan advertises 20 hours to recharge, that would be an average 12 amps but its nonlinearity would suggest that it might go as high as 13 to 13½ or so, then trickle the last 60-90 mins to prevent overcharging
I don't follow your math. 24kWh/20 hours = 1200 watts. 1200 watts/120v = 10 amps average, not 12.

I agree it is probably nonlinear, but the max would be no more than 12.

100% efficiency?
 
johnr said:
They're being very conservative in making it a 10 amp charger...A microwave oven uses a whopping 18 amps...All of these appliances can plug into a standard 120V outlet..

Sorry, appliances with a UL mark may not draw more than 12 amps continuously (its "rated current") through a standard 120V 15A plug and outlet.
 
johnr said:
They're being very conservative in making it a 10 amp charger. I would think they could safely up it to 15 amps.

A vacuum cleaner uses 12 amps.
An electric heater uses 13 amps, and may run for hours at a time.
A microwave oven uses a whopping 18 amps.

All of these appliances can plug into a standard 120V outlet. And it's not unusual for them to all be running at the same time.

Yet, ironically, the largest appliance of all sips a paltry 10 amps.


There are no charger parts in there, sorry.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
planet4ever said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
since Nissan advertises 20 hours to recharge, that would be an average 12 amps but its nonlinearity would suggest that it might go as high as 13 to 13½ or so, then trickle the last 60-90 mins to prevent overcharging
I don't follow your math. 24kWh/20 hours = 1200 watts. 1200 watts/120v = 10 amps average, not 12.

I agree it is probably nonlinear, but the max would be no more than 12.
100% efficiency?
Good point. But 12 amps average would be not much more than 80% efficiency. Don't you think it is closer to 90% efficient? Whatever those numbers are, though, the important one is that the charger has been sized to work on a 15 amp circuit, and that means for continuous draw it can't pull more than 12 amps.
 
I agree it is probably nonlinear, but the max would be no more than 12.[/quote]
100% efficiency?[/quote]
Good point. But 12 amps average would be not much more than 80% efficiency. Don't you think it is closer to 90% efficient? Whatever those numbers are, though, the important one is that the charger has been sized to work on a 15 amp circuit, and that means for continuous draw it can't pull more than 12 amps.[/quote]


What? The charger could pull far more amps at 120V. It is limited to not trip a 15A circuit as a min baseline because they know it will be plugged into 15A circuits.
 
planet4ever said:
Good point. But 12 amps average would be not much more than 80% efficiency. Don't you think it is closer to 90% efficient? Whatever those numbers are, though, the important one is that the charger has been sized to work on a 15 amp circuit, and that means for continuous draw it can't pull more than 12 amps.

i think my Zenn is in the high 80's or low 90s and its not an efficient system. i have been monitoring the charging on my Zenn over the past few weeks and it usually starts off in the low 13's then fades down from there. other than the plug getting slightly warm, nothing else heats up and it 3 years, i have never had a trip and have run a few lights off the same circuit without issues.

but then again, i dont recharge that much. would be interesting to see what would happen after a 14 hour pull. but i would think that we would be looking at something at least in the 90's for efficiency.

the other thing is the time to charge from empty. i have seen 20 hours, 18 hours, etc. and we will always have the issue of the last stage of charging and how long it will take. i am guessing trickle down is probably around 60-75 minutes.
 
johnr said:
A vacuum cleaner uses 12 amps.
An electric heater uses 13 amps, and may run for hours at a time.
A microwave oven uses a whopping 18 amps.

The vacuum cleaner is used only for short periods (particularly by my wife, ba-dum!)
The microwave is usually plugged into a 20A circuit - if it's a built-in model it should be on a dedicated 20A circuit.
The heater is an anomaly... as you point out, it can run for long periods... and have you noticed the plug gets warm? They aren't the safest things going. Some of them have a half power setting, like 700 watts, which isn't a bad idea.
 
DeaneG said:
johnr said:
They're being very conservative in making it a 10 amp charger...A microwave oven uses a whopping 18 amps...All of these appliances can plug into a standard 120V outlet..

Sorry, appliances with a UL mark may not draw more than 12 amps continuously (its "rated current") through a standard 120V 15A plug and outlet.
Oops, my bad. I was thinking 1800 watts, which at 120 volts is 15 amps. And it is UL listed, and I tested the wattage with my meter. 1800 watts. 15 amps.

EVDRIVER said:
There are no charger parts in there, sorry.
When are you going to get off your high horse and actually read people's posts before you make yourself look like an idiot with your never-ending cut-and-paste replies about chargers??!!! :x If you actually read my post in context you should know what I'm talking about. I meant what I said, I said charger and I was referring to the charger. You have a problem with that?
 
johnr said:
DeaneG said:
johnr said:
They're being very conservative in making it a 10 amp charger...A microwave oven uses a whopping 18 amps...All of these appliances can plug into a standard 120V outlet..

Sorry, appliances with a UL mark may not draw more than 12 amps continuously (its "rated current") through a standard 120V 15A plug and outlet.
Oops, my bad. I was thinking 1800 watts, which at 120 volts is 15 amps. And it is UL listed, and I tested the wattage with my meter. 1800 watts. 15 amps.

EVDRIVER said:
There are no charger parts in there, sorry.
When are you going to get off your high horse and actually read people's posts before you make yourself look like an idiot with your never-ending cut-and-paste replies about chargers??!!! :x If you actually read my post in context you should know what I'm talking about. I meant what I said, I said charger and I was referring to the charger. You have a problem with that?


No problem,

As I said, there is no 10A charger. The charger is regulated in this case only by the EVSE. When people begin to understand the difference they will also know the leaf does not have a 10A charger. But you knew that right? Sorry
 
EVDRIVER said:
No problem,

As I said, there is no 10A charger. The charger is regulated in this case only by the EVSE. When people begin to understand the difference they will also know the leaf does not have a 10A charger. But you knew that right? Sorry
No, I'm sorry, I'm the one who should apologize for getting angry at you. The previous time I was referring to the internal charger, but this time I was referring to the level 1 EVSE. Everyone was calling it a charger and made me stumble and call it one too. I was being so careful to refer to them correctly but now I've messed up :(
 
EVDRIVER said:
planet4ever said:
Whatever those numbers are, though, the important one is that the charger has been sized to work on a 15 amp circuit, and that means for continuous draw it can't pull more than 12 amps.
What? The charger could pull far more amps at 120V. It is limited to not trip a 15A circuit as a min baseline because they know it will be plugged into 15A circuits.
Oops, you're right. It is the EVSE built into the 120v charging "cord" that imposes the 12A limit. But the result is the same -- 12A is the maximum draw, not the average as DaveinOlyWA was suggesting.
 
Yes, the USA L1 EVSE "specifies" approximately 12 amps max.
Thus, that "maximum" would be used for most of the charging cycle,
but there4 is likely to be substantially less usage during the ending
hour or two (the "topping off" part) of the charge cycle.

Speculation:
IF this EVSE was used on a 20-amp circuit, where it could legally
draw 16 amps, AND it accidently got modified to "specify" 16 instead
of 12 amps, the LEAF just MIGHT charge faster than the "20-hours".

Probably, the "friend" of some misguided person will attempt this
and report the results to us.
 
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