The 40KWH Battery Topic

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DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
Here are the latest stats for my 2018. It did get a small 3 month update about a week or two back, where it went up, but only a little.
End of Aug it was at SOH 87.36 and then on Sep 4th is was at 87.69

So not a huge jump, but up is better than down! Also my daily loss of 0.01 (or even 0.02) from the hot summer days is starting to slow, so hopefully I won't lose that first bar this winter. Plan is still to trade it in for something longer ranged this winter. I am proud to say my HX is VERY low compared to some of you! :lol:

As of yesterday:

AHr: 101.17
SOH: 87.64
Hx: 101.58
SOC:60.3
Vol: 361.41
16 mV cell diff

ODO: 11,142 mi
QC: 17
L1/L2: 530

Will be interesting to see how your pack progresses. I have a friend with a 2018 whose stats are almost in lock step with your except Hx.

He sends me LEAF Spy data monthly and just got his yesterday

ahr 101.56
SOH 87.98
Hx 76.62
odo 84,137
QC 123
L2 2709

Hx of 76???

What climate does he live in?

I've been "ass"uming a lower HX was better. I know I've seen a number of folks with HX around 110's or mid hundreds, so i thought mine around 101.5 was quite good. But 76?
 
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
Here are the latest stats for my 2018. It did get a small 3 month update about a week or two back, where it went up, but only a little.
End of Aug it was at SOH 87.36 and then on Sep 4th is was at 87.69

So not a huge jump, but up is better than down! Also my daily loss of 0.01 (or even 0.02) from the hot summer days is starting to slow, so hopefully I won't lose that first bar this winter. Plan is still to trade it in for something longer ranged this winter. I am proud to say my HX is VERY low compared to some of you! :lol:

As of yesterday:

AHr: 101.17
SOH: 87.64
Hx: 101.58
SOC:60.3
Vol: 361.41
16 mV cell diff

ODO: 11,142 mi
QC: 17
L1/L2: 530

Will be interesting to see how your pack progresses. I have a friend with a 2018 whose stats are almost in lock step with your except Hx.

He sends me LEAF Spy data monthly and just got his yesterday

ahr 101.56
SOH 87.98
Hx 76.62
odo 84,137
QC 123
L2 2709

Hx of 76???

What climate does he live in?

I've been "ass"uming a lower HX was better. I know I've seen a number of folks with HX around 110's or mid hundreds, so i thought mine around 101.5 was quite good. But 76?

Pacific Northwest. What data do you have to back your statement?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
What climate does he live in?

I've been "ass"uming a lower HX was better. I know I've seen a number of folks with HX around 110's or mid hundreds, so i thought mine around 101.5 was quite good. But 76?

Pacific Northwest. What data do you have to back your statement?

Back what statement? I have no idea what is a good HX, that was what I meant by "ass"uming. Nobody knows, its all just guesses.

I do know that when I charge to higher SOC, above about 80%, my Hx starts to climb, but if I keep it between about 30% and 70%, it starts to drop. Other than that, only the data people here post.
 
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
What climate does he live in?

I've been "ass"uming a lower HX was better. I know I've seen a number of folks with HX around 110's or mid hundreds, so i thought mine around 101.5 was quite good. But 76?

Pacific Northwest. What data do you have to back your statement?

Back what statement? I have no idea what is a good HX, that was what I meant by "ass"uming. Nobody knows, its all just guesses.

I do know that when I charge to higher SOC, above about 80%, my Hx starts to climb, but if I keep it between about 30% and 70%, it starts to drop. Other than that, only the data people here post.

I guess its just me then? I am thinking you have "something" otherwise you would not have made the statement?

My Hx is over 116 and I have only charged past 70% a few dozen times in almost 2 years. What I have found is any statement can be both true and false for seemingly similar situations. I am gathering LS data on gen 2 packs to see what rises to the top but data gathering is not going well.

I am guessing your Hx is "low" because of your low DC count which seems to be common although there are several notable exceptions to that rule but all the exceptions have much more miles than you so thinking there is a limit to the effect of any action.

Too many people simply don't care.
 
Sorry I was being tongue in cheek but I don't think it came across quite right in the original post.
I really have no idea what is good or bad for Hx.

Though I was honestly surprised to see a number in the 70's, I have never seen that here? Just from memory, most are in the 100-120 range?
 
danrjones said:
Sorry I was being tongue in cheek but I don't think it came across quite right in the original post.
I really have no idea what is good or bad for Hx.

Though I was honestly surprised to see a number in the 70's, I have never seen that here? Just from memory, most are in the 100-120 range?

Well, all the packs start around 98% then move up. Highest I've seen 119.10. Highest on my car 117.23. DC bumps it up "most" of the time at least initially.

There is one guy with 86.73 Hx at 103000 km. 142 DCs, 2700 AC's. In Spain but mild weather. Most notable fact; 3 mV delta. Likely the lowest all time record I've seen?

Then we have Guilherme with Hx 78.68 nearing 150,000 miles SOH 86% 1200 DC's, 2800 AC's...

Like I said; all over the map.

FYI; only confirmed 11 bar gen 2 is at 62.55 @99000 miles.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
FYI; only confirmed 11 bar gen 2 is at 62.55 @99000 miles.

That is almost low enough to qualify for a new pack, isn't it? That much lower than anyone else I've seen.

It lost ONE bar with only 1500 miles to lose the other 3 :lol:

Sorry I misread, I thought you were saying SOH was 62.55

My bad!
 
rogersleaf said:
rogersleaf said:
rogersleaf said:
A bit overdue posting the last set of data. Pulled this last week.
I'm at 17 months now, 30,000 miles.
Looks like almost no capacity loss since the last time and GIDs are up by 2, find that hard to believe.
Must have found the fountain of youth.

LS stats:
AHr... 107.35
SOH... 92.99%
Hx... 109.64%
SOC... 99.2% and 471 GID
404.06v, cells balanced between 4.207-4.212v
odo... 30,271
20 QC / 772 L2’s
It's been awhile since posting an update. Now at 24 months and roughly 40,000 miles.
My usage dropped substantially over the Winter due to temporary changes in commuting.

LS stats:
AHr... 104.24
SOH... 90.30%
Hx... 110.65%
SOC... 97.3% and 448 GID (although charged 100% on L2 and shut off on it's own after rebalancing cycle)
403.53v, cells balanced between 4.203-4.205v
odo... 39,968
25 QC / 1008 L2’s
Passing 45,000 miles now... Almost no change since the last reading (SOH actually went up slightly, gained a GID)

LS stats:
AHr... 104.83
SOH... 90.81%
Hx... 105.52%
SOC... 97.0% and 449 GID
403.89v, cells balanced between 4.206-4.209v
odo... 45,159
25 QC / 1124 L2’s
Turning 50,000 miles. Battery looks very stable over the past 10K miles

LS stats:
AHr... 104.51
SOH... 90.53%
Hx... 100.03%
SOC... 98.5% and 455 GID
403.90v, cells balanced between 4.206-4.209v
odo... 50,110
27 QC / 1230 L2’s
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
You had a positive adjustment Roger. Aint it cool! :D
Isn't that something? Others post much faster degradation cases, this one comes across as an outlier. Maybe there's some truth to piling on the mileage (~20K/yr) has little effect on SOH and other degradation measures over time?

The weird part is I haven't been babying the battery or the car this past Summer. I still use the charge timer, but morning departures have been so irregular lately that it's usually fully topped off to 100% before departing for work. Then it gets quickly run down to @ 75%. Then sits 8 hours before burning another 30% to get home and maybe 15-20% more if running errands. So basically cycling daily using 60%+ of the pack capacity, but that's the top 60%, not the middle 60% (20-80%), it's rarely deep discharged, and almost never DCFC.
 
Here is some stat info from my wife's 2018 (SL). It's over 3.5 years old now. My wife drives it like a car, doesn't worry about how often she QC or charging over 80%, etc. As you can tell from the number of L1/L2 numbers, she treats it like her cell phone, afraid for it to ever be less than 100% even though she never drives that far anywhere during the day. :lol: She finally came over to the dark side and got rid of the Lead Acid 12 volt battery, running all Lithium now. :mrgreen:

oGnWKEn.jpg


LNtY4ht.jpg


RE8bkHz.jpg
 
Turning 50,000 miles. Battery looks very stable over the past 10K miles

LS stats:
AHr... 104.51
SOH... 90.53%
Hx... 100.03%
SOC... 98.5% and 455 GID
403.90v, cells balanced between 4.206-4.209v
odo... 50,110
27 QC / 1230 L2’s

My 2019 SV 40kWh has LeafSpy readings identical to these (rogersleaf), but my car is three months younger, June 2019, and 41,000 miles younger, my odo reads 9108 miles.
 
minitoleaf said:
Turning 50,000 miles. Battery looks very stable over the past 10K miles

LS stats:
AHr... 104.51
SOH... 90.53%
Hx... 100.03%
SOC... 98.5% and 455 GID
403.90v, cells balanced between 4.206-4.209v
odo... 50,110
27 QC / 1230 L2’s

My 2019 SV 40kWh has LeafSpy readings identical to these (rogersleaf), but my car is three months younger, June 2019, and 41,000 miles younger, my odo reads 9108 miles.
I've had a strange speculation for awhile that the SOH degradation curve for this battery is baked into the software. Some report a stair-step pattern, adjustments every 90 days like clockwork, it appears to be more sensitive to elapsed age than mileage, etc... It just doesn't decay with a randomness that I would expect. In my case, the ~9% loss in SOH doesn't jive with real world capacity loss in driving range (mine seems to be surviving much better than the % SOH loss would suggest). Maybe there's some truth to that speculation? That would be a bigger scandal than rapidgate if Nissan eventually bases their warranty decisions on those stats.
 
Two comments on that: I think that it is likely that there is a sort of low 'standard deviation' programmed that the pack usually follows in the absence of significant extra loss of capacity. This seems to follow a general course that keeps the pack from falling below the warranty requirements. OTOH, real world range seems to still correlate with SOH, so I don't see any real Monkey Business involved here. The other observation is that, until about 12% has been lost, we tend not to notice that initial loss of capacity. I remember that from my 2013 Leaf and it seems very common here: people often think that they have virtually new range - until the SOH drops into the upper eighties. My theory on that is that we learn to drive the cars more efficiently, and that this masks the loss of capacity until it drops below the nineties.
 
rogersleaf said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
You had a positive adjustment Roger. Aint it cool! :D
The weird part is I haven't been babying the battery or the car this past Summer. I still use the charge timer, but morning departures have been so irregular lately that it's usually fully topped off to 100% before departing for work. Then it gets quickly run down to @ 75%. Then sits 8 hours before burning another 30% to get home and maybe 15-20% more if running errands. So basically cycling daily using 60%+ of the pack capacity, but that's the top 60%, not the middle 60% (20-80%), it's rarely deep discharged, and almost never DCFC.
Charging to 100% SoC and leaving the battery to cook at 100% SoC are two very different animals. And if you really want to toast your battery, charge it to 100% SoC when the battery is hot and then let it cook.
----

For our LEAF, this might be the first winter that we elect to charge to 100% rather than 80%. Since we don't use scheduled timing in the winter to avoid charging a cold battery, the car is destined to sit at 100% until its next use but at a low battery temperature. We'll see how that behavior affects degradation.
 
SageBrush said:
For our LEAF, this might be the first winter that we elect to charge to 100% rather than 80%. Since we don't use scheduled timing in the winter to avoid charging a cold battery, the car is destined to sit at 100% until its next use but at a low battery temperature. We'll see how that behavior affects degradation.

Going by what my wife Leaf stats, charging to 100% is only charging to 98.75% when it was new, the pack is never charged over 4.2V per cell. I've never seen any pack charge over 4.3V per cell, for reasons to prevent it from being damaged of course, but there is technically more capacity you could put into it if you could use it right away without it sitting at such a high state of charge. I've never read any actual damage studies being caused by how much time when sitting at a high state of charge. A combination of cold weather and using it right away probably means you are minimizing the damage as low as possible, maybe even low enough as to not make much of a difference in the grand scheme of life of the pack when it comes to aging.

My wife has been leaving her Leaf sit at 100% charge a lot over the years. I don't mean *for* years, but certainly for days at a time sometimes, even though I ask her not to do that. :(
 
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