The 62kWh Battery Topic

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Bjorn has an interesting point here.

https://youtu.be/BCrWE1CSdWs

The Leaf 62 is quoted often as having 57kWh available, though those of us with Leaf Spy know that when the car is new, it show nearly 60. Do the question is whether we should.really only count degradation from 57kWh on down, or from 60? The SoH is from 59.X kWh, but if spec is 57 usable, it implies we should only count from about 95% SoH on down. I am curious if the BMS and bars also use a similar methodology, and might explain why we haven't seen any of the 83% SoH 2018 packs reflect 11 bars yet.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Bjorn has an interesting point here.

https://youtu.be/BCrWE1CSdWs

The Leaf 62 is quoted often as having 57kWh available, though those of us with Leaf Spy know that when the car is new, it show nearly 60. Do the question is whether we should.really only count degradation from 57kWh on down, or from 60? The SoH is from 59.X kWh, but if spec is 57 usable, it implies we should only count from about 95% SoH on down. I am curious if the BMS and bars also use a similar methodology, and might explain why we haven't seen any of the 83% SoH 2018 packs reflect 11 bars yet.

A few different viewpoints;


EPA view
; 57 kwh usable is under 4 miles/kwh to hit the 226 EPA. That is an achievable YEAR ROUND AVERAGE


BMS View
; Negating the reading on pickup day, ALL my full charges (9 in 20 months) have read between 57 and 56.3 kwh. These readings cover 18 months and more than 6% range in SOH and the only real thing that has changed is the SOC of the full charge.

Note; GID max estimated using pack reading to 100% SOC

01/17/20; 730 GID 56.6 kwh available, 403.0 volts, SOC 98.3 GID max; 743
07/07/21; 729 GID 56.5 kwh available; 402.8 volts, SOC 100.0 GID max; 729

On the 83% packs; Haven't seen any that low. I have to look but lowest I've seen is 84 something. A Uberite in Europe. I expected him to be the first to drop a bar but have not heard from him lately. His last report was in Jan. He was already over 100,000 miles then.

As far as when the first bar drops, the old BMS bounced around a lot so any "definitive" reading was impossible. So we saw bars drop mostly between 84¼ and 83½% with a pack "buffer" that tended to be about 1½ kwh. Add to that that most packs only charged to ~98% SOC and one has to wonder when the clock actually starts on the 15% (which is "our" number) march to bar departure #1?

Naturally by the time we get to the 4th bar, the range is larger. My guess with the newer BMS not bouncing around except on "adjustment" day says we should be seeing a much tighter range of values but I always considered the first bar to be on the edge at 83½%
 
Interesting

About a month after we bought the SV+ I hooked up Leaf spy and saw 775 gids and 59.x kWh. (I don't recall the X, but I think k it was a 1 or 7). Post the BMS adjustments over the past 2 years, max gids is now like 720 and about 56kWh.

So is that 1kWh degradation or 4kWh? With a SoH of 92.7, it suggests 4, but as some level it is.pretty esoteric.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Interesting

About a month after we bought the SV+ I hooked up Leaf spy and saw 775 gids and 59.x kWh. (I don't recall the X, but I think k it was a 1 or 7). Post the BMS adjustments over the past 2 years, max gids is now like 720 and about 56kWh.

So is that 1kWh degradation or 4kWh? With a SoH of 92.7, it suggests 4, but as some level it is.pretty esoteric.

In retrospect, maybe doing more full charges should have been done but based on the date, I am thinking my first full charge was after the first adjustment? Either way, I have had several more adjustments (mostly down) but my predicted range has not changed. I am not very happy with the SOC being at 100% but then again, I have to wonder if its just another BMS sleight of hand since the voltage hasn't really changed?
 
Well the 2019 SV+ at 100% today was only showing 709 gids. It wasn't fully balanced, so maybe I gets to 710.

Upper 80s and super humid today. A 150 mile round trip with 5 adults in the car and AC on pretty full blast for the trip. That humid air does wonders for efficiency, as the car still showed 4 miles/kWh in the freeway sections (70mph). Rolled in 231 gids, 24% dash, 31% LS, suggesting a range of 217 miles, near perfect to the epa.

Tires were 44psi cold as a disclaimer.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Bjorn has an interesting point here.
All EVs with Li-x batteries have a degradation rate in the first ~ 6 months of use that is different (faster) than the subsequent rate.
The problem with the LEAF is that in addition to the above, it also degrades sitting on the dealer lot.
 
I wonder about the "dealer lot" degradation. Is there any way to access the battery log (maybe with LeafSpy) to see when/how the battery was charged, the battery temps, battery aHrs, etc, etc. during the time it was actually on the lot. I'm somewhat suspicious as mine was delivered with 3% battery SOC and sat somewhere for over 4 months. If Nissan can determine that the battery was abused via their internal logging, I'd guess we should be able to determine dealer abuse!
 
Marktm said:
I wonder about the "dealer lot" degradation. Is there any way to access the battery log (maybe with LeafSpy) to see when/how the battery was charged, the battery temps, battery aHrs, etc, etc. during the time it was actually on the lot. I'm somewhat suspicious as mine was delivered with 3% battery SOC and sat somewhere for over 4 months. If Nissan can determine that the battery was abused via their internal logging, I'd guess we should be able to determine dealer abuse!

No but you could try running the "battery report" immediately after you pick up the car.
 
Did LS screen shots at 22 miles upon reaching my home and fully charging (did not take data before home charging :| ):
Ahrs - 175.11
SOH - 99,27
Hx - 97.66
SOC - 97.8%
2 QCs, 2 L1/L2's (one was obviously my home charge - L2)
13 mV avg.
Battery Temp ~ 80 oF
758 GIDs

So there is no way to tap into the historical logging - just to see what is available? The "battery report" that Nissan does/requires annually tells you essentially nothing!

I will continue to post the subsequent data.
 
My earliest LS recording was at 195 miles. Not sure how long the car was on the lot before I bought it, but it was 5 months old based on date of manufacture. What I saw then was:
SOH - 99.16%
Ahrs 174.92
Hx - 99.65%
QCs -2
L1/L2 - 6
GIDS -606
SOC - 78.4%
GIDS capacity (extrapolated from SOC) - 773.0, or 59.90 kWh.

I got the first BMS adjustment after 10 weeks, a drop of 1.5% SOH in two days. Now after 3300 miles I'm sitting at 96.78% and capacity down 20 GIDs from when I bought it.

If degradation were linear with mileage, I would hit the warranty replacement threshold at only 33K miles. I'm trusting you guys that the rate will slow down.
 
Marktm said:
Did LS screen shots at 22 miles upon reaching my home and fully charging (did not take data before home charging :| ):
Ahrs - 175.11
SOH - 99,27
Hx - 97.66
SOC - 97.8%
2 QCs, 2 L1/L2's (one was obviously my home charge - L2)
13 mV avg.
Battery Temp ~ 80 oF
758 GIDs

So there is no way to tap into the historical logging - just to see what is available? The "battery report" that Nissan does/requires annually tells you essentially nothing!

I will continue to post the subsequent data.

the battery report "does" tell you something. It will tell if you are charging too much when SOC is already above 80% and is that not one of your concerns? In any case, LEAF Spy detected all charging events you basically got a car that had only been charged a few times.

Is your car by chance a dealer trade? Low SOC could have happened due to the drive to your dealer from another dealership?
 
oxothuk said:
My earliest LS recording was at 195 miles. Not sure how long the car was on the lot before I bought it, but it was 5 months old based on date of manufacture. What I saw then was:
SOH - 99.16%
Ahrs 174.92
Hx - 99.65%
QCs -2
L1/L2 - 6
GIDS -606
SOC - 78.4%
GIDS capacity (extrapolated from SOC) - 773.0, or 59.90 kWh.

I got the first BMS adjustment after 10 weeks, a drop of 1.5% SOH in two days. Now after 3300 miles I'm sitting at 96.78% and capacity down 20 GIDs from when I bought it.

If degradation were linear with mileage, I would hit the warranty replacement threshold at only 33K miles. I'm trusting you guys that the rate will slow down.

Well Plus pack has more cells, more range both of which means less degradation likely for same # of miles. Now we have a lot of 40 kwh packs that hit 91-90% SOC quickly including a bunch in less than 18 months. Now 2 years later, most are at 86-88% so dramatic slowdown.

Still looking for first Gen 2 pack to have lost a capacity bar.
 
Marktm said:
Did LS screen shots at 22 miles upon reaching my home and fully charging (did not take data before home charging :| ):
Ahrs - 175.11
SOH - 99,27
Hx - 97.66
SOC - 97.8%
2 QCs, 2 L1/L2's (one was obviously my home charge - L2)
13 mV avg.
Battery Temp ~ 80 oF
758 GIDs

So there is no way to tap into the historical logging - just to see what is available? The "battery report" that Nissan does/requires annually tells you essentially nothing!

I will continue to post the subsequent data.
It looks to me like your battery is in excellent condition. My 2019 SL Plus was manufactured in July 2019 and I drove it home on August 10th so it did not sit on the dealer lot at all. My initial LEAF Spy readings were:
AHr=175.15
SOH=99.29%
Hx=98.19%
Odometer=64 miles
After first full charge on August 11, 2019:
AHr=174.99
SOH=99.20%
Hx=98.95%
Volts=399.44
Odometer=189 miles
Gids=730
Highest Gid reading of 737 happened on 9/21/2019 at 2153 miles and again on 10/27/2019:
AHr=172.85
SOH=97.99%
Hx=106.34%
Volts=401.03
Odometer=2,153 miles
Gids=737
Last full charge on 7/22/2021 at 34,558 miles:
AHr=162.41
SOH=92.07%
Hx=95.60%
Volts=401.37
Odometer=34,558 miles
Gids=687
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
the battery report "does" tell you something. It will tell if you are charging too much when SOC is already above 80% and is that not one of your concerns? In any case, LEAF Spy detected all charging events you basically got a car that had only been charged a few times.

Is your car by chance a dealer trade? Low SOC could have happened due to the drive to your dealer from another dealership?

I'm a careful "charger" as the normal usage is only 40-50 miles per day. So I do a 4 hour night charge every few days => 4x6.6kWx4.3 m/kWh = about 115 miles per session. Try to keep SOC between 25 and 75%. It only had 22 miles on the ODO, so I don't know how it had 2 QC's and 1 L2 charge - and 3% SOC to boot. Makes no sense. As G.AZ states - appears to be a good battery, so I'm not worried. Main worry is South TX temps! (99 today).
 
Maybe they turned the car on and ran climate control for demonstration purposes without driving (or with short test drives). I would not worry about it--your battery statistics from Leaf Spy look good. I routinely discharge mine deeply and charge fully.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
2019 SV+ quarterly bms update done. -.65% 14,500 miles on the car.

92.26 to 91.61% was hoping this would be up, but no such luck.

We should be corelating the change with miles driven. Twice (in two different cars) my stats improved with more miles driven. Its as if the BMS allows more access to the pack when it detects the user needs it?
 
another drop also...


kX28sv1l.png
 
Back
Top