DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14030
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 9:42 am

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+1. Range estimates in your garage is one thing but lez be real; the MOST important part of the range is the bottom. All cars have reserve of a little or a lot. LEAF Spy simply portrays reality using information FROM the car. It is quite easy to predict the last mile in your car and be quite close.

It is by a long long long shot, the most useful thing about my LEAF. It is really quite sad that every EV doesn't have this. (would save thousands a lot of embarrassment if gassers had it as well. ;) )
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 11:33 am

Thank you for all of your LEAFSpy testimonies.

Now granted all of you appear to be enthusiasts that like to push boundaries, sort through the jumble of data that LEAF Spy displays to sleuth trends and develop hypotheses, even though LEAF Spy does not produce much real data at all, (DTCs and clear CanBus messages like for tire pressure, etc, not withstanding), but rather presents data derived by speculative assumptions. The silver-lining is that it provides the same derived data consistently so all of the readings are questionable which does give some basis.

And sure you can look at DTCs and change some minor parameters, but how often does that happen?

The key thread from all of the things that you like about LEAF Spy is that it allows you to stretch the boundaries of what your car is capable of, and that" beat the system" satisfaction is really called entertainment.

We all have some sort of interest that we like to get under the hood on, for example mine is meteorology. The key that needs to be respected is that the data you have from LEAF Spy or any other sort of similar thing is that it is speculative not empirical. So at the minimum you have to acknowledge that.

98% of the LEAF world does not care about the things that you enjoy using LEAF Spy for, they are happy with a temperature gauge that simplifies things saying "if the gauge is between these two points, everything is fine."

They are also happy with the navigation system that can provide credible route planning taking into consideration weather, and topology, traffic. The LEAFs range estimation route planning is as good or better of an estimate as you could by thrashing through what LEAF Spy displays. But that's not the point, it's fun doing it that way, and when something is fun, it's entertainment.

So to your point, yes LEAF Spy is useful as an entertainment tool, regardless of what you choose to call it. It's fun to speculate what is happening to your LEAF in a finer granuarity and there are several things that you can infer from looking at its data, but it is not any more useful than just looking at the information that the car presents in its native displays.

I don't mean to insult any of you, and see where you are coming from, so please keep using LEAF Spy to fuel the "how many angels can fit on a pin" discussions. They are quite entertaining.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

SageBrush
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 12:16 pm

OrientExpress wrote:blah blah blah
What a pile of BS.

Let's ask @turbo3 if he has any doubts about the LeafSpy reported battery temperatures being correct (at least within the limits of the sensors themselves.) Put another way, are the LS reported temperatures the same a Nissan approved tool would report ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 1:37 pm

Put another way, are the LS reported temperatures the same a Nissan approved tool would report ?
I guess that is what an bitter old idiot would suggest, but not an expert such as yourself.

The real question is was is the normalized operational heat range of the cells that are generating the heat. Do know what that is? Now remember it’s 2019, and there have been a few improvements in the field lately.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

SageBrush
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 1:48 pm

OrientExpress wrote:

The real question is was is the normalized operational heat range of the cells that are generating the heat.
The question is why you are hiding from LeafSpy.

You can try to argue that 50C is good for your battery all you want, but at least you will know the temperature.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 2:26 pm

The real question is why would you insist on using a measurement tool whose calibration can’t be confirmed?

What counts is that the manufacturer warrants a car to operate normally as long as it stays within a certain temperature range. It’s irrelevant what is behind that range. If the car gets beyond that range the manufacturer provides instructions on how the operation can get it back in range, and safely systems to get the car back in range if the operator does not take action.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12773
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 2:32 pm

This is getting pretty unproductive. Why don't we leave it at "OrientExpress doesn't think LeafSpy is a good tool, and everyone else does."...?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9579
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 3:15 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:This is getting pretty unproductive. Why don't we leave it at "OrientExpress doesn't think LeafSpy is a good tool, and everyone else does."...?
I haven't had time chime on on Leaf Spy's usefulness (which it is very), but it's more than that.

OE actively discredits Leaf Spy and passes on information that may mislead newbies to Leaf and EVs. While I would never want to assert that 77.5 watt-hours per gid * gids = kWh as some do and that SOH MUST equal remaining capacity, the raw numbers themselves and comparing notes is useful and has been useful to myself and others (here, at work, on Leaf FB groups, etc.)

I wouldn't be surprised if he secretly runs it, never posts the results and continues spouting the various Nissan "company line" or what he thinks Nissan's messaging should be (e.g. claims that he had no battery degradation on his '14).

Will chime in more later tonight/this week.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 4:00 pm

OrientExpress wrote:The real question is why would you insist on using a measurement tool whose calibration can’t be confirmed?
The "calibration" as you call it is at the level of the battery temperature sensors (if it happens at all), way before the can-bus. LeafSpy does not "calibrate" anything. You might mean scale, but that is easily verified.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu May 23, 2019 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 23, 2019 4:38 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:This is getting pretty unproductive. Why don't we leave it at "OrientExpress doesn't think LeafSpy is a good tool, and everyone else does."...?

Thank You. Everyone can use whatever they want to pontificate with.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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