jkenny23
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:49 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Sep 2017
Leaf Number: 009318

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:06 pm

map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:31 pm
jkenny23 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:48 am
@map40home, I thought it was better to just share the information here in case anyone else wants it (it's all publicly available knowledge anyways, but I put it together for my own reference):
THANK YOU! It is greatly appreciated! I got a fully assembled Leaf 24KW battery comming, and I am planning to get this hooked up and running as soon as I get everything. Eventually I will get the Mux board and get the right GOM.
Once again, Thnaks!
If you're getting a full Leaf battery, you can skip the extra contactors, and just use the ones that are contained in the pack. All you need to do is buffer the contactor control signals and figure out how to read from the 2nd Leaf LBC/BMS for errors that would require you to disconnect the pack, though they are pretty unlikely.

map40home
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 009238

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:15 pm

jkenny23 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:59 pm
What kind of resettable fuse have you found that can interrupt 400VDC at 300A? I would be interested in such a part.
Maybe this would help? https://www.amazon.com/ANJOSHI-Circuit- ... 345&sr=8-2

jkenny23
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:49 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Sep 2017
Leaf Number: 009318

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:55 pm

map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:15 pm
jkenny23 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:59 pm
What kind of resettable fuse have you found that can interrupt 400VDC at 300A? I would be interested in such a part.
Maybe this would help? https://www.amazon.com/ANJOSHI-Circuit- ... 345&sr=8-2
So 2 major issues:

Rated Current: 50A-250A
Rated Voltage :42VDC maximum

Obviously, 42V isn't nearly 400V. 400V will arc through without blinking that and probably turn it into a smoldering heap. 250A is also a bit below the max current the Leaf can operate at, which I've observed to be about 290A peak during hard acceleration in LeafSpy. If you just want a manual disconnect, I recommend this part: https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_ ... cts_id=267 400A, 1kV rated. Fuse is another story, but your best bet would be to just use the contactors and an E-stop that will interrupt power to them. They won't be happy interrupting full current, but it can handle it (I think it's rated to a few cycles interrupting that level of current) without safety concerns.

Edit: If you want some good reading on contactors, here's the Panasonic page on the actual contactors used in the Leaf: https://www3.panasonic.biz/ac/e/control ... /index.jsp It's got a diagram on how it extinguishes the arc.

map40home
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 009238

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:34 pm

jkenny23 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:55 pm
map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:15 pm
jkenny23 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:59 pm
What kind of resettable fuse have you found that can interrupt 400VDC at 300A? I would be interested in such a part.
Maybe this would help? https://www.amazon.com/ANJOSHI-Circuit- ... 345&sr=8-2
So 2 major issues:

Rated Current: 50A-250A
Rated Voltage :42VDC maximum

Obviously, 42V isn't nearly 400V. 400V will arc through without blinking that and probably turn it into a smoldering heap. 250A is also a bit below the max current the Leaf can operate at, which I've observed to be about 290A peak during hard acceleration in LeafSpy. If you just want a manual disconnect, I recommend this part: https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_ ... cts_id=267 400A, 1kV rated. Fuse is another story, but your best bet would be to just use the contactors and an E-stop that will interrupt power to them. They won't be happy interrupting full current, but it can handle it (I think it's rated to a few cycles interrupting that level of current) without safety concerns.

Edit: If you want some good reading on contactors, here's the Panasonic page on the actual contactors used in the Leaf: https://www3.panasonic.biz/ac/e/control ... /index.jsp It's got a diagram on how it extinguishes the arc.
Sorry, pick the wrong one. Saw the 300v type instead of rated voltage. Problems of growing old and not having the glasses nearby the phone. I'll try again...

map40home
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 009238

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:41 pm

jkenny23 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:06 pm
map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:31 pm
jkenny23 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:48 am
@map40home, I thought it was better to just share the information here in case anyone else wants it (it's all publicly available knowledge anyways, but I put it together for my own reference):
THANK YOU! It is greatly appreciated! I got a fully assembled Leaf 24KW battery comming, and I am planning to get this hooked up and running as soon as I get everything. Eventually I will get the Mux board and get the right GOM.
Once again, Thnaks!
If you're getting a full Leaf battery, you can skip the extra contactors, and just use the ones that are contained in the pack. All you need to do is buffer the contactor control signals and figure out how to read from the 2nd Leaf LBC/BMS for errors that would require you to disconnect the pack, though they are pretty unlikely.
So, if I understand this correctly, I can just splice from the main battery (I think pin 11, 14, 17 and ground or some close that I will verify), and connect the high power leads, and again in principle, it should work, right? I know, I still need to read the BMS for important errors and put a very nice fuse between the packs along with a very nice insulated hard case to protect the batteries.
What do you mean by buffering the contactor control signals?

jkenny23
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:49 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Sep 2017
Leaf Number: 009318

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:34 pm

map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:41 pm
jkenny23 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:06 pm
map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:31 pm


THANK YOU! It is greatly appreciated! I got a fully assembled Leaf 24KW battery comming, and I am planning to get this hooked up and running as soon as I get everything. Eventually I will get the Mux board and get the right GOM.
Once again, Thnaks!
If you're getting a full Leaf battery, you can skip the extra contactors, and just use the ones that are contained in the pack. All you need to do is buffer the contactor control signals and figure out how to read from the 2nd Leaf LBC/BMS for errors that would require you to disconnect the pack, though they are pretty unlikely.
So, if I understand this correctly, I can just splice from the main battery (I think pin 11, 14, 17 and ground or some close that I will verify), and connect the high power leads, and again in principle, it should work, right? I know, I still need to read the BMS for important errors and put a very nice fuse between the packs along with a very nice insulated hard case to protect the batteries.
What do you mean by buffering the contactor control signals?
The contactor drivers in the BCM are only expecting to power one relay, not 2, plus the wiring is going to be fairly far to your extender pack, so you'll want another relay driver to not overload the ones in the BCM.

goldbrick
Posts: 748
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:52 pm

map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:41 pm
What do you mean by buffering the contactor control signals?
Buffering a signal means putting some sort of (usually) active component between the signal (which is the output of some circuit) and the inputs to the circuit it has to drive. A mechanical relay can do this or an electronic circuit can be used.

The basic idea is that if the output from one circuit component isn't compatible with the the inputs of the circuits it is connected to, something is inserted in between them to isolate or buffer the output from one circuit from the input to the next circuit. The incompatibility can be the amount of current required, rise/fall rate, voltage level, impedance characteristics, etc.

In this particular case, the concern is the amount of power (current * voltage) required to drive both relays, including the voltage drop through the longer wiring.

Irling
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:38 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Jul 2019

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:30 pm

map40home Congratulations on your purchase of an extra battery. What is your body? Zeo? Azeo?
How do you want to connect an extra battery, before or after the current sensor? How do you want to solve the turtle problem after using all 285 GiDs ?

map40home
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 009238

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:34 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:52 pm
map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:41 pm
What do you mean by buffering the contactor control signals?
Buffering a signal means putting some sort of (usually) active component between the signal (which is the output of some circuit) and the inputs to the circuit it has to drive. A mechanical relay can do this or an electronic circuit can be used.

The basic idea is that if the output from one circuit component isn't compatible with the the inputs of the circuits it is connected to, something is inserted in between them to isolate or buffer the output from one circuit from the input to the next circuit. The incompatibility can be the amount of current required, rise/fall rate, voltage level, impedance characteristics, etc.

In this particular case, the concern is the amount of power (current * voltage) required to drive both relays, including the voltage drop through the longer wiring.
Got it. A mosfet or a triac circuit driving the load of the contactors drawing the power from the battery upon receiving the signal from the vmc comming from the control cables. Anybody has one already used in this application I can copy? Otherwise I can just do a generic one.

jkenny23
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:49 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Sep 2017
Leaf Number: 009318

Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:53 pm

map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:34 pm
goldbrick wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:52 pm
map40home wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:41 pm
What do you mean by buffering the contactor control signals?
Buffering a signal means putting some sort of (usually) active component between the signal (which is the output of some circuit) and the inputs to the circuit it has to drive. A mechanical relay can do this or an electronic circuit can be used.

The basic idea is that if the output from one circuit component isn't compatible with the the inputs of the circuits it is connected to, something is inserted in between them to isolate or buffer the output from one circuit from the input to the next circuit. The incompatibility can be the amount of current required, rise/fall rate, voltage level, impedance characteristics, etc.

In this particular case, the concern is the amount of power (current * voltage) required to drive both relays, including the voltage drop through the longer wiring.
Got it. A mosfet or a triac circuit driving the load of the contactors drawing the power from the battery upon receiving the signal from the vmc comming from the control cables. Anybody has one already used in this application I can copy? Otherwise I can just do a generic one.
N-MOSFET or NPN relay circuit from here (non-inverting logic) will work: https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/bl ... rcuit.html

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