Government mandates for apartment/condo/townhome charging topic

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GRA

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
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Location
East side of San Francisco Bay
GCR:
Chicago among cities requiring spaces for apartment, condo dwellers to charge EVs
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...es-for-apartment-condo-dwellers-to-charge-evs


. . . The ordinance, passed back in October, requires that new residential developments with 24 units or more provide—at minimum—two EV-ready parking spaces. It's a more-relaxed version of an ordinance originally introduced back in September that would have mandated that 20% of spaces be set aside for EVs.

Developers themselves are not responsible for installing chargers, but they will be required to lay the foundation (so to speak) for their installation. This way, if (more likely, when) managers choose to add charging stations down the road, the building modifications required to do so will be minimal. These renovations can often be costly, and reducing the financial impact may encourage more landlords to pursue charging installations.

The Midwest's charging infrastructure lags that of the urban coasts, so Chicago's initiative is worthwhile, especially since EV buyers in the city are more likely to be stuck charging either at home or at work, as public options remain scarce and access (and reliability) can be inconsistent. It does little to help those who live in older builds within the urban center, however, as there is no provision in the ordinance for existing structures.

Chicago's initiative is far less aggressive than those in states such as California, where EV manufacturers and charging network developers are pushing for more government support, citing the need to support a statewide fleet that could be 25% EVs by 2030. To do this, California's goal is to build out its network infrastructure to 250,000 charge points (10,000 of them DC fast chargers) by 2025.


Some previous related topics:
Palo Alto to require EVSE wiring in new homes
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14521&p=329311&hilit=california+apartment#p329311


Huntington Beach new development charge station requirements
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=13597&p=310356&hilit=california+apartment#p310356


SB 209 and SB 880 clones for AZ (condo & apartment EVSE)
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8525&p=189581&hilit=california+apartment#p189581
 
Designing this into the buildings electrical svs and pulling the wire while framing costs nearly nothing. Compared to trying to do it after the fact, possibly needing to upgrade panels, installing subs, knocking holes in walls to run wire...

My rental houses have drive way accessible L14-30 RV boxes. BYOevse obviously.
 
Oilpan4 said:
My rental houses have drive way accessible L14-30 RV boxes. BYOevse obviously.
Nice perk :)
And I like your choice of the L14-30 outlet. You don't hear as much lately about the L14-30 but early on it was somewhat the standard for 240v EVSEs before Tesla came along and kind of standardized the 14-50(for EVs, the 14-50 has long been the standard for larger RVs).
Personally I standardized on the L14-30 for several reasons, first it was what EVSEUPGRADE used on their full 20a conversions and second with the Leaf maxing out at 27.5a, a 30a outlet is enough(I use a full 30a breaker so I can pull up to 30a continuous making the L14-30 outlet ideal but in your case or outlets I don't know I'd dial my adjustable EVSE down to 24a). I still put a 14-50 outlet in my garage on a 40a circuit but I've made adapters to go from it(and many other 120v and 240v plugs) to an L14-30f. I like the L14-30 because it's so much smaller than the humongous 14-50 but still heavy-duty enough for 30a's continuous. Not only are 14-50 plugs large and heavy but worst are the 14-50 female plugs needed for outlet adapters should I have standardized on the 14-50 plug for my EVSEs.
As far as the OP, I too agree it's a good idea as without home charging it eliminates many living in multi-dwelling homes from getting an EV. Making provisions for future EVSEs is dirt cheap when constructing the building but as you said, can get very costly after.
 
I used 14-30 because I can get 10/3 with ground romex wire for dirt cheap and my car maxes out at 16 amps.

Actually you shouldn't really be pulling more than 24 amps on a standard 30 amp dryer circuit ran on 60C wire.
 
I added a 14-50 outlet since that is what our 40 amp MUSTART cable requires and is a common 240 volt outlet for 50 amp RV's but the Leaf can only draw at a max rate of 26 amps but I was thinking about down the road plus the 40 amp version is more weather resistant than their 32 amp version and the price was less than $100 more. I added a 240 volt switch in front of the 14-50 outlet so I can power down the MUSTART cable without unplugging it because they do not like the computer subject to spikes and surges from the grid when not in use plus I want to restart the its usage meter on each charging event.

For apartment owners EV charging can be a pain but that will change with time due to consumer demands and the apartment owners wanting to attract a larger pool of renters going forward just like they started added washers and dryers years ago.
 
NEC needs to change to require a "where the car is parked" 20 amp dedicated circuit.
That way it doesn't cost too much, no special RV box needed and it can stay hooked up as a regular 120v circuit until it's needed to power a 240v 16amp evse. Then all you have to do is change the breaker, put some red tape on the white wire and install your choice of 240v 20 amp receptacle. Hey it's better than nothing.
Right now NEC only requires 1 or 2 dedicated outside 120v receptacles but those can be put pretty much anywhere and that's what a lot of people are using to 120v charge.
 
I always tell people that electric vehicle charing is going to be required in the next NEC revision.
It might and I'm sure it will be in there some day.
I personally don't think it will be in the 2020 revision but would be surprised if it wasn't in there on or before 2029.
 
smkettner said:
I agree some level of EV charging should be required in the building electric code.
Still waiting for a request at one of mine......

I think something similar to the 20amp 110vac block heater outlets on a post near every outside parking spot
like we already have at the 16 plexes here up north
would be more than adequate and cheap to implement, leave the cost of the EVSE with the driver and no one should squak too much.
 
rmay635703 said:
smkettner said:
I agree some level of EV charging should be required in the building electric code.
Still waiting for a request at one of mine......

I think something similar to the 20amp 110vac block heater outlets on a post near every outside parking spot
like we already have at the 16 plexes here up north
would be more than adequate and cheap to implement, leave the cost of the EVSE with the driver and no one should squak too much.


Especially if reconfiguring to a 20A, 240 volt EVSE connection is allowed.
 
LeftieBiker said:
rmay635703 said:
smkettner said:
I agree some level of EV charging should be required in the building electric code.
Still waiting for a request at one of mine......

I think something similar to the 20amp 110vac block heater outlets on a post near every outside parking spot
like we already have at the 16 plexes here up north
would be more than adequate and cheap to implement, leave the cost of the EVSE with the driver and no one should squak too much.


Especially if reconfiguring to a 20A, 240 volt EVSE connection is allowed.

Given each spot is assigned, lockable and tied to the assigned apartments panel there really is no reason not to.

Sadly even with the above “a right to charge“ law (preferably federal)
needs to exist since many apartments apparently block your ability to lot charge off your own metered electricity.

In many areas A “right to park outside” needs to be made universal as well as that area specific law is abused as well.
 
rmay635703 said:
LeftieBiker said:
rmay635703 said:
I think something similar to the 20amp 110vac block heater outlets on a post near every outside parking spot
like we already have at the 16 plexes here up north
would be more than adequate and cheap to implement, leave the cost of the EVSE with the driver and no one should squak too much.


Especially if reconfiguring to a 20A, 240 volt EVSE connection is allowed.

Given each spot is assigned, lockable and tied to the assigned apartments panel there really is no reason not to.

Sadly even with the above “a right to charge“ law (preferably federal)
needs to exist since many apartments apparently block your ability to lot charge off your own metered electricity.

In many areas A “right to park outside” needs to be made universal as well as that area specific law is abused as well.



That's one approach, but it would seem easier for expansion to just make it first come, first served by any apartment resident, with a debit card to pay, and have the apartment owner pay the utility for the electricity. Condos/Townhomes can go either way.
 
GRA said:
rmay635703 said:
LeftieBiker said:
Especially if reconfiguring to a 20A, 240 volt EVSE connection is allowed.

Given each spot is assigned, lockable and tied to the assigned apartments panel there really is no reason not to.

Sadly even with the above “a right to charge“ law (preferably federal)
needs to exist since many apartments apparently block your ability to lot charge off your own metered electricity.

In many areas A “right to park outside” needs to be made universal as well as that area specific law is abused as well.



That's one approach, but it would seem easier for expansion to just make it first come, first served by any apartment resident, with a debit card to pay, and have the apartment owner pay the utility for the electricity. Condos/Townhomes can go either way.

The slumlords around here are worried about $10 of extra construction.

It’s only about $15 an outlet when you have a string of outdoor 110vac

A charge station is what $3000?

You can buy a hundred outlets with conduit, breakers and wire for the price of one station.
 
rmay635703 said:
GRA said:
rmay635703 said:
Given each spot is assigned, lockable and tied to the assigned apartments panel there really is no reason not to.

Sadly even with the above “a right to charge“ law (preferably federal)
needs to exist since many apartments apparently block your ability to lot charge off your own metered electricity.

In many areas A “right to park outside” needs to be made universal as well as that area specific law is abused as well.



That's one approach, but it would seem easier for expansion to just make it first come, first served by any apartment resident, with a debit card to pay, and have the apartment owner pay the utility for the electricity. Condos/Townhomes can go either way.

The slumlords around here are worried about $10 of extra construction.

It’s only about $15 an outlet when you have a string of outdoor 110vac

A charge station is what $3000?

You can buy a hundred outlets with conduit, breakers and wire for the price of one station.


I'm not talking about retrofits, as they're much more expensive to do than for new construction. $3k is much too high per L2, especially if bought and installed in bulk ab initio.

Are you suggesting that people use their portable chargers with 5-15 or 5-20 outlets in such neighborhoods? IMO, anything that expensive, portable and sellable would be stolen in short order. There's also an issue of convenience and flexibility, as L1-only restricts both.
 
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