non-plugin hybrid discussion

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cwerdna

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I couldn't find a topic on this so I figured I'd start one.

I was surprised to learn that Toyota non-plugin hybrid sales are so strong in Europe.

Toyota Increased Hybrids Sales In Europe While PHEVs Remain 0.2%
https://insideevs.com/news/359555/toyota-increased-hybrids-sales-europe-phevs/
The Japanese manufacturer underlines that the majority of sales (51%) are now hybrids (275,300), which especially in the western part of the continent accounts for 60% of the brand's total sales. In the case of the Lexus brand, the average is 69% (99% in Western Europe).

As in the case of the first quarter, sales of Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid remain marginal at 1,100, which is barely over 0.2% of the overall volume.
In comparison, look at Toyota's US sales for the same period. There's a chart where hybrid sales listed.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/toyota-motor-north-america-reports-us-sales-for-june-first-half-of-2019-300879351.html

From rough numbers in the US for the same period, Toyota-branded hybrids make up under 9% of Toyota US sales CYTD and for Lexus, it's about 14.4%, if I did my math right.
 
High cost of fuel and the reduction in diesel subsidy in Europe are the main drivers.
The VW fiasco was a present to Toyota.
 
SageBrush said:
High cost of fuel and the reduction in diesel subsidy in Europe are the main drivers.
The VW fiasco was a present to Toyota.

Yep post dieselgate knee jerk at its best
 
rmay635703 said:
SageBrush said:
High cost of fuel and the reduction in diesel subsidy in Europe are the main drivers.
The VW fiasco was a present to Toyota.
Yep post dieselgate knee jerk at its best
I'm not sure what you mean. Diesel cars were always a terrible idea. They only caught on in Europe due to subsidized fuel.
I imagine the Toyota bump was in part due to anger at VW for the long running deception, and in part because Toyota makes excellent ICE cars and even better hybrids. At $6 - $8 a gallon for petrol, the hybrid premium is covered quickly. I think that some countries and localities continue to give hybrids a tax break based on CO2 tiers.

For example,
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables
 
Got our first hybrid and like it a lot.
Put the 17 inch factory wheels from the old hyundai on the new one, put the fuel economy tires on the old car that is getting sold to my wifes adopted son.
Only gave up about 2 mpg giving up the FE tires. Still gets 42 mpg on the highway not even trying and 44 in town.
 
Diesel cars were always a terrible idea. They only caught on in Europe due to subsidized fuel.


Don't forget all the lying in advertising about "clean diesel." Europeans tend to be more environmentally conscious than Americans, and many people (in both places) bought the lies about great fuel economy and low emissions. They thought they were doing something Good, or were at least not doing anything bad.
 
Diesels caught on in Europe because primarily of good fuel economy. Fuel is expensive in these parts of the world, and Europeans tend to drive smaller cars with smaller engines because of that. In the "old days" diesel cars were frugal and cheaper to run, but they were also sluggish and not very refined. When modern and efficient diesel-cars started to come out on the market, people turned to them as they were not only cheap to run, but also much more refined than earlier. A modern turbodiesel were more powerful than a comparable gasoline car, so that played a part too.

The main problem with diesel, aside of Dieselgate, is that modern diesel-engines do not like frequently short trips and subsequently clogs up. Particulate filters, injectors, turbos - yep, a lot of things that can go wrong. And they do. For longer trips - sure, they work fine. But many lives in urban areas and only do short distances for the most part. The engine doesn't heat up properly and stuff starts to happen from there. What you save in fuel costs, may well be lost in what you have to spend in maintenance costs.

Then you also had higher emissions of NOX and particulates. This became a fairly big problem in urban areas with a lot of traffic and there has been attempts from local authorities to try to reduce these.

People have generally become more aware too, and evaluate their car needs more than before. They just don't look at the low fuel consumption of a diesel-car, but also see if their driving pattern is suitable for a diesel-car.

Toyota have also been advertising hard for their "self-charging" hybrids. No need to plug in - they charge themselves magically!

My parents bought a RAV4 Hybrid in 2016 and they were looking at the Outlander PHEV as well. The Toyota-salesperson flat out told them that the Outlander could not work as a regular hybrid. You had to charge the battery at home, and when it was empty, the car would only be able to work as a regular ICE. It could not recharge while driving. My parents still bought the Toyota after I told them that this wasn't true (there was other reasons to why they prefered the Toyota). They are not that pleased with its fuel consumption and feel it is a bit thirsty, especially when comparing it to my Subaru Forester diesel (which is similar in size).
 
Yay! Finally, there's a hybrid minivan from a Japanese automaker coming to the US market:

2021 Toyota Sienna Looks Wild and Comes Only as a Hybrid
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32491160/2021-toyota-sienna-hybrid-revealed/
 
LeftieBiker said:
What was the Prius V? A station wagon, I guess?
Yep. Was underpowered as the vehicle was bigger and heavier than the Gen 3 Prius liftback but with identical net system power.

Also, IIRC, the US never got the 7-seat version of the V wagon w/the big NiMH pack in the back replaced with a smaller li-ion pack between the front seats.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1077250_2012-toyota-prius-v-in-an-alternative-world-it-has-7-seats
 
cwerdna said:
Yay! Finally, there's a hybrid minivan from a Japanese automaker coming to the US market:

2021 Toyota Sienna Looks Wild and Comes Only as a Hybrid
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32491160/2021-toyota-sienna-hybrid-revealed/
Totally forgot about this until I saw some headlines today.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2021-toyota-sienna-pricing-fuel-economy/ - 36 mpg combined is very good for something of this size. I didn't see the results up at https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbsSelect yet.
 
Europe: Most Toyota Car Sales In 2020 Were Hybrids, Rarely Plug-Ins
https://insideevs.com/news/466638/europe-hybrids-toyota-sales-2020/
However, while other manufacturer rushed to sell as many plug-ins as possible, Toyota sold only a handful of plug-ins and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Hybrids, on the other hand, stand for 53% of the overall volume (65% in Western Europe).
 
As Ford loses billions on EVs, the company embraces hybrids
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/28/ford-embraces-hybrids-as-it-loses-billions-on-evs.html

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2023/07/28/ford-motor-company-f-q2-2023-earnings-call-transcr
John Murphy -- Bank of America Merrill Lynch -- Analyst

Just one really quick follow-up there, Jim. When you're talking about hybrids, are you talking about plug-in hybrids or hybrids that will qualify for the $7,500 IRA credit just that they have batteries that are large enough? I just wanted to make sure we understand that.

Jim Farley -- President and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. I want to make it really clear. The term hybrid is going to -- in our industry going to get our company. Hybrid could be a serial hybrid.

It just means a motor powers batteries. It could be a hybrid in the traditional sense that like the F-150 hybrid or the -- and the hybrids I'm referring to are not plug-in hybrids. They are vehicles without a plug.
 
Ford Is Killing The Explorer Hybrid Because Cops Are Buying All Of Them
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn less fuel with hybrid technology
https://jalopnik.com/ford-is-killing-the-explorer-hybrid-because-cops-are-bu-1851039243
 
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