Oilpan4
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed May 27, 2020 3:51 am

That post by its self proves why Hydrogen is a Rube Goldberg solution for a problem easily solved by batteries.

I thought a year or 2 ago the next big thing in fuel cells was going to be needing little or no platinum group metals. Guess that didn't pan out.
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GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed May 27, 2020 6:14 pm

Which post are you referring to? Pt requirements have been radically reduced, to the point where it's the same amount as a catalytic converter (see upthread). But reducing it further will lower the cost even more while reducing sourcing issues, so of course you'll do so if it's cost-effective.

GCC:
Rolls-Royce and Daimler Truck AG plan cooperation on stationary fuel-cell systems

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... rolls.html

. . . Daimler Truck AG and the Volvo Group plan to start large-scale production of heavy-duty fuel-cell commercial vehicles for demanding and heavy long-haul applications in the second half of the decade. However, the fuel-cell systems for stationary applications can be produced in series by the planned joint venture between Daimler Truck AG and the Volvo Group at an earlier stage, as the specific requirements for use in transport on public roads do not apply. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu May 28, 2020 5:27 pm

GCC:
Phase I SBIR program project selections include efforts in hydrogen and fuel cell R&D technologies

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... -sbir.html

. . . The following three projects, supported by the Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies Office, will address hydrogen R&D challenges and advance progress in hydrogen production from wind power:

Alchemr will develop and test a hydrogen production system that can enable chemical and fuels manufacturing as well as increased use of offshore wind energy without the need for major transmission infrastructure investment. The new anion exchange membrane electrolyzers will enable fuels and chemicals to be manufactured at off-shore locations. This will enable wind energy to be utilized without requiring major transmission infrastructure to be built and create new revenues and jobs for US industry.

Giner will develop a cost model and design requirements for a wind-to-hydrogen generation system and identify the cost impacts associated with generating and transmitting hydrogen from offshore windfarms instead of electricity.

Greenway Energy will develop and test a new, low-cost, and efficient electrolysis system that can be directly coupled with wind turbine power. The electrolyzer will demonstrate long term performance and lifetime with minimal maintenance and operating costs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:49 pm

Both GCC:
European HYFLEXPOWER project to demo first integrated power-to-X-to-power hydrogen gas turbine

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... power.html


RE to H2 storage to CHP.
. . . Engie Solutions has been entrusted with producing energy at the Smurfit Kappa site in Saillat-sur-Vienne, France. At the site, Engie Solutions operates a 12 MWe combined heat and power facility which produces steam for the manufacturing company’s requirements. The conversion of an existing infrastructure has the advantage of significantly lower costs and minimized lead time compared to a greenfield site. The project will develop and demonstrate an advanced plant concept that will contribute to modernizing and improving the factory’s existing power plant.

During two demonstration campaigns, the facility will be powered by a mix of natural gas and hydrogen, ultimately aiming for up to 100% hydrogen operation. In this regard, the overall goal of the HYFLEXPOWER project is to test an entirely green hydrogen-based power supply for a completely carbon-free energy mix. This would save up to 65,000 tons of CO2 per year for a SGT-400 at baseload operation. . . .

The project’s total budget is close to €15.2 million, of which €10.5 million will be contributed entirely by the European Union under the Horizon 2020 program.

Officially launched on 1 May 2020, the project will last 4 years and will be split into several phases. . . .


ITM Power establishing subsidiary to build, own and operate H2 refueling stations

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... 1-itm.html

ITM Power is establishing ITM Motive as a separate, wholly owned subsidiary for building, owning and operating a portfolio of hydrogen refueling stations in the UK. On establishment, ITM Motive will own and operate a network of eight publicly accessible hydrogen refueling stations, which will expand to 11 by the end of 2020. Each station incorporates an ITM Power electrolyzer and a Linde IC90 compression, storage and dispensing system.

ITM Power has successfully sourced both UK and EU funding to support the build and deployment costs, and developed a siting agreement with Shell for deployment on their forecourts in the UK. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:33 am

GCC:
Nikola orders enough electrolysis equipment from Nel to produce 40,000 kg of hydrogen per day

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... ikola.html
Nikola Corporation, which is making its public-trading debut on the NASDAQ today (NKLA), signed a purchase order with Nel ASA for 85-megawatt alkaline electrolyzers to support five of the world’s first 8-tonne-per-day hydrogen fueling stations. Together, these electrolyzers may produce more than 40,000 kgs of hydrogen each day. . . .

The company expects to generate revenue by 2021 with the rollout of its Nikola Tre Class 8 BEV, followed by the Nikola Two Class 8 FCEV starting in 2023. The build out of hydrogen fueling stations will serve Nikola customers’ fleets, such as Anheuser-Busch. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:35 pm

GCC:
[youtube]UC Irvine analysis finds renewable hydrogen sector could reach price parity with conventional fuel by mid- to late 2020s[/youtube]

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... 6-uci.html

The California Energy Commission has released a UC Irvine roadmap for the buildout and deployment of renewable hydrogen production plants in California to support policy decisions and inform stakeholders.

The study concludes that, with appropriate policy support, the renewable hydrogen sector can reach self-sustainability (price point at parity with conventional fuel on a fuel-economy adjusted basis) by the mid- to late-2020s.

The roadmap defines actions needed to support an optimal deployment of renewable hydrogen production plants needed to meet the growing demand for renewable hydrogen. The analysis builds upon insights from early market development and a series of analyses developed for the roadmap on current and future technology costs, feedstock supply and cost, siting and factory buildout, and demand growth.

The roadmap effort developed several scenarios for the growth in renewable hydrogen demand through 2050. Although transportation is expected to be the primary source of demand for renewable hydrogen, petroleum refining, power generation and storage, heat, industrial processes, and ammonia production are all additional sources of potential demand. This analysis projects a high-case demand for renewable hydrogen of more than 400 million metric tons per year in 2030 and more than 10 times that amount in 2050. . . .

The analysis projects plant gate-to-dispenser costs to decline from around $16 per kilogram (excluding subsidies and credits) at present to a midpoint estimate of $6 by 2025, declining to below $5 by 2050 with a low-end estimate of $4 per kilogram. The biggest factor in the cost decline is increased station utilization (fuel dispenses as a fraction of full capacity) with economies of scale and technology progress also contributing.

The analysis also found that the dispensed price of hydrogen is likely to meet an interim target based on fuel-economy-adjusted price parity with gasoline of $6 to $8.50 per kilogram by 2025. Furthermore, reaching the long-term DOE target of $4 per kilogram is within the forecast band for 2050, but the base forecast is around $5 per kilogram.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

smkettner
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:58 am

Once again hydrogen is just ten years away if the government keeps funding these projects.
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GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:16 pm

Five to ten (less in Europe), kinda like BEVs if the government keeps funding them and QC infrastructure.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:13 am

smkettner wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:58 am
Once again hydrogen is just ten years away if the government keeps funding these projects.
What a waste of tax money. 5 years just to get close to the price per mile of gasoline and that ASSUMES someone (other than government) is willing to invest the significant capital to build the hydrogen production facilities needed to bring the cost of hydrogen down.
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:07 am

GRA wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:16 pm
Five to ten (less in Europe), kinda like BEVs if the government keeps funding them and QC infrastructure.
Hydrogen powered cars are a lot more than five years away, in any sort of significant numbers. Say 0.1% or more. BEVs have been there for almost a decade.

BEVs can take over most driving, other than long distance. Hydrogen might take over the couple of percent of miles that are on long trips.

Maybe.

Or Al-air or better Li-ion or ...
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