WetEV wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:56 amBased on two months of registrations, the take rate is higher.GRA wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:02 pmHigh fuel taxes seem to be working quite well in Europe, an area where the take rate is higher than the U.S. Are you suggesting that European countries should eliminate them, and only rely on subsidies?
But is that real world usage actually higher?
PHEV miles are only 37% electric worldwide.
Uh huh, and what did that ICCT report recommend to change that?
Gee, that sounds familiar.The results of the joint study, released by German Fraunhofer Institute for Systems and Innovation Research ISI and the International Council on Clean Transportation, suggest that incentives to promote a higher share of electric driving would increase the potential for plug-in hybrid vehicles to reduce emissions.
The Volt wasn't a CUV, when they've been the most popular type here for the past what, 6-8 years?WetEV wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:56 am0-60 isn't all there is to smoother and more responsive. The Volt is closer to a BEV than a hybrid, as is the i3 with REX. Two discontinued models suggest your personal desire isn't "mass market".GRA wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:02 pmI don't recall people complaining that the Volt, a semi "mass-market" PHEV, was sluggish when in hold mode.WetEV wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:51 pm
Not just 0-60 times, BEVs are smoother and more responsive. Real PHEVs, unlike those "you could design" tend to have small electric motors as well as small batteries. The exceptions are the Volt and the I3 with REx. GM killed the Volt, and BMW has said REx has no future.https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/first- ... drive.htmlMaximum electric thrust is still 149 horsepower and a rollicking 294 pound-feet of torque, and Chevy's claimed 0-60 mph acceleration time remains pegged at 8.4 seconds. Our 2016 Chevy Volt long-termer beat that mark with a 7.5-second performance at our test track, and this 2019 example feels like it will do the same.
For comparison, my Forester does 0-60 in 9.6 seconds, which is entirely adequate - faster is fun, but hardly necessary. Many of the current 200+ mile BEVs have around 200 HP motors, but then so do some comparable PHEVs which can drive them solely off the battery. Again, you can design a PHEV for whatever power split you choose. My personal desire is for an ICE to maintain freeway cruising speed, with the battery and motor providing adequate accel (ca. 8-10 sec. 0-60) alone or boost to the ICE for passing. Others have different priorities.
The i3 Rex was a compliance car designed to meet a California reg. that BMW lobbied to establish, one which ludicrously limited its fossil fuel range while providing an excessive AER for most people. Not to mention being too expensive, the suicide doors etc. It should have had a smaller battery and a fuel tank at least twice and preferably four times as big, and just been treated as a regular PHEV.
Do you think the RAV4 Prime will have limited sales, once they produce enough of them? As it is dealers are slapping $5-10k Adams on them because the demand far exceeds the current supply.
See previous comments. I think we needed to be at ca. 5% PEVs about 3 years ago to have any chance of keeping AGCC down to 1.5 deg. C., and the fight now is to try and limit it to only 2 deg. C The only way to accomplish a rapid rise in PEV sales is to get the price down: we need Model Ts, not Pierce Arrows, Duesenbergs and Packards.WetEV wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:56 amTime is why everything doesn't happen at once. A decade of doubling every 2.5 years has us at about 2% market share now, the next decade will be more interesting.GRA wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:02 pmPlease point to anywhere I've "insisted" (there's you using that word again) that EVs "start" with the mass market. What I have said is that we're a decade into mass production of PEVs and we shouldn't be helping the wealthy buy expensive toys, but should instead concentrate on getting as much of a transportation GHG reduction we can as soon as we can, which requires a much larger % of PEVs being sold. That can only be accomplished by reducing their prices and reducing or eliminating as many practical roadblocks as possible. Batteries and charging infrastructure aren't there yet, so that leaves HEVs and PHEVs as the lowest common denominator. I don't believe we can afford to wait to 2030 to do so. You apparently do.
Even if every car sold today was a BEV, the fleet would still be over half ICE in 2030.
So would PHEVs do better? As only 37% of miles are electric, less in Europe with high gas taxes, would that really work better?