FINALLY purchased a new-to-me-Leaf

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MPScotia

Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Messages
10
Location
Nova Scotia, Canada
Hi everyone. Long time lurker, first time EV driver from the East Coast of Canada. I've been debating getting a used Leaf for about 2 years and finally picked up a 2016 SL, 11/12 bars (78%), 110k kms, the other day and LOVE it. With Nova Scotia finally getting on the EV bandwagon there's a nice 2k rebate on used EVs, although our pickings are quite slim. My commute is maybe 30kms/day, and that's with coming home for lunch :)

The only questions I've had have been answered numerous times, but I'm still flummoxed as I drive super easy and can't get over 5.7km/kwh and my range, around town (70kms/hr tops and only for 5 minutes), no AC. My leafspy report looks good to me: https://photos.app.goo.gl/KkXvBovY2Yhu3wRG9
But I'm wondering if it's the Z-rated no-name tires that are on it killing the efficiency? Anyhoo I look forward to learning even more about it as the days and months go on.
 
Congratulations, enjoy the fun of your new EV.

You should be getting better economy than that. Reset the counter to clear the previous owners average and get your own. Did you check and increase your tire pressure? Is there any strange wear pattern on the front or rear tires (excess toe-in or scrubbing)? Use the Energy Info screen to monitor the consumers, are you seeing a high draw from the HVAC even though it is OFF?

It looks like the previous owner was plugging in to charge quite frequently, 3081 Level 2 is almost 9 years worth of charging with only about 35 km per charge.

Since your commute is so low then you could probably only charge to about 9 or 10 bars (~80% SOC) and drive 3 or maybe 4 days between charging.

Charging less often to a lower SOC and then driving more (higher DOD) has been tested and shown to have less wear and tear on the pack.
AC1775H.png
 
Hi! Thanks for the reply! The tires are all at ~41psi and practically new and evenly worn. The HVAC is showing zero consumption (as I'm not using it much. It's kinda cool here these days!). I was thinking of driving it down below 20% and use leafspy again to see if there are any bad cells. I'm not too concerned about the SOH at the moment, but reading the leaf range chart for a Leaf @ 80% SOH makes it seem I should be able to go well over 100kms on our highway at a reasonable clip (~100kms/hr), but maybe because I'm not willing to let it go down far enough? Learning by reading information is one thing, but actually seeing it in practice is another. :)
 
I don't want to raise a red flag too soon or sound like an alarmist, but there is the possibility that the capacity gauge has been reset. It would help if you told us more about how and when you purchased the car. Have you read my used Leaf buying guide?
 
The LeafSpy stats look legit, but that's a crazy high number of charging sessions.
Living in the North has obviously been "berry, berry good" to this battery.
 
Take a look at the Energy History tab in the Energy Info Display, and reset it, then it will show you the instantaneous usage km/kWh while you are driving. Aerodrag will come into play at higher speeds, but by all means take it for a test run of 50km at 100kph and see how it does. Then try a long run at 60kph to see how it changes. In a pinch you can nearly always get home just by slowing down.

How much is being pulled by the Other consumer on the Energy Info?
 
Thanks again for all the replies. You veterans of the board have so much patience!

I was an idiot and reset the history as soon as I got the car. TheLeaf buying guide was a godsend and went through it knowing the issues with the 30kwh battery. It was purchased from a dealer getting into EVs about 1.5hrs away from me and In order to get our new used EV rebate they had to supply the battery info (via LeafSpy), which confirmed the SOH (which I was good with) and they confirmed with their sister Nissan dealership that the BMS update had been done and battery warranty ends November of 2023.

I'm only on 120V charging at the moment and wore it down to 7% on a trip over to the cottage (VERY hilly) and blew through 50% (59% -> 7%) going around 60kms, which in hindsight doesn't seem super-bad. I'm charging now and I'm back up to 25% and 15:30 left to go. :) No AC was on and the climate control usage graph was non-existent.

I guess my main concern isn't with the battery condition, but the fact that I cannot seem get a good efficiency rating (My former car was a Cruze Eco and I think I'm not too shabby at driving for efficiency (I've had 3.3-4.2L/100kms readings going the same routes that I'll be doing with the Leaf)).

Looking at the range chart it seems that 5.8km/kwh is something a Leaf should get at ~100kms/hr and puttering around town I should be 8+. I know this is such a hard question to find answers for, but could it be the non-LRR/sticky tires? Brakes don't seem to be dragging. I do think I'll do a highway run (fairly level, 105kms/hr) for 25-30kms each way and see what I come back with.
Does just under 6kms/kwh seem excessive for non-highway use?

Thanks again for all your great help. I do appreciate it!
 
nlspace said:
Charging less often to a lower SOC and then driving more (higher DOD) has been tested and shown to have less wear and tear on the pack.

The conclusion you give is a bit misleading. A higher SOC will "wear and tear" on the pack faster. So will a higher DOD. Changing both at the same time will not tell you as much as you seem to indicate.
 
Tires can make a lot of difference. A lot of the efficiency numbers posted on the forum are with OEM low rolling resistance tires. Sport/performance or run flat tires can reduce range by 15% to 20% (maybe even more in some cases).
 
MPScotia said:
Hi everyone. Long time lurker, first time EV driver from the East Coast of Canada. I've been debating getting a used Leaf for about 2 years and finally picked up a 2016 SL, 11/12 bars (78%), 110k kms, the other day and LOVE it. With Nova Scotia finally getting on the EV bandwagon there's a nice 2k rebate on used EVs, although our pickings are quite slim. My commute is maybe 30kms/day, and that's with coming home for lunch :)

The only questions I've had have been answered numerous times, but I'm still flummoxed as I drive super easy and can't get over 5.7km/kwh and my range, around town (70kms/hr tops and only for 5 minutes), no AC. My leafspy report looks good to me: https://photos.app.goo.gl/KkXvBovY2Yhu3wRG9
But I'm wondering if it's the Z-rated no-name tires that are on it killing the efficiency? Anyhoo I look forward to learning even more about it as the days and months go on.
Without knowing the route elevation changes, getting 5.7 km / kwh is actually quite low for a Gen 1 Leaf. Driving around town at speeds under 80 km/h should be getting at least 8 km /kwh if the drive is fairly flat (and no climate control). As others have already mentioned, you have several things to check. The first would be the tires. I didn't see it listed anywhere, but what kind of tires are on the Leaf now? It might be written down the side of the tires, like model or brand for example. The next thing to check is aero-damage. Look under the front of the Leaf and see if the engine cover is damaged with large holes, pieces hanging down, or just plain gone. A damaged engine cover can act like a parachute further killing range. Finally, given the age of the Leaf, it might be worth a try changing the gear oil and using some higher quality stuff than the stock that comes from the factory. Again, just little bits of improvement for each thing, but they all add up to more range in the end. :D
 
Oh I'll check the cover!

I'm leaning towards the junky tires that came with the Leaf as they are "Dayton HT 801" Z-rated with a 240 wear rating (Canadian Tire cheap ones from what I can tell), so they're grippy. The only time I was able to get anything above 7 was by crawling at 40-50km/hr after the LBW came on the other day. I may break down and grab some Ecopias.
 
i don't believe its the tires could cause that much reduction. Even if you triple the rolling friction coeff of the ecopia, it is a minor influence compared to aero drag.

What does the energy monitor screen show you are pulling when driving on a flat road at a constant speed, say 60 or 70 kph?

If you had the Lspy phone app you could see the exact current draw while driving.

[edi]
Are you looking at the instrument panel or the dash screen for your readings? They need to both be reset and they are separate reset buttons.
 
nlspace said:
i don't believe its the tires co
... and it's .... rithmetic time !!!

A fairly typical tyre has a 0.009 ƒ coefficient of rolling friction
If the car+stuff+people is 1600 Kg the rolling friction is 1600*9.8*0.009 = 140 N = 140E3 Joules/km = 39 Wh per km

Triple the RR and you have added 78 Wh/km to your consumption
Heck, just double your tyre RR and you have added 39 Wh/km to your consumption

If a good result is 8 km per kWh that works out to 125 Wh/km. An extra 40 - 80 Wh/km consumption from grippy tyres can easily explain OP's mediocre results.

----
OP, so long as you have excluded things rubbing or blocking and the types are well inflated, you intuition that the tyres are grippy is a very fair guess. Are they new ? The first couple thousand km on some tyres come with excessive rolling resistance. If you want to swap, you have to avoid putting inappropriate tyres on the car for the winter. I'm a fan of two sets of wheels+tyres but the forum has oodles of discussion about that topic elsewhere.

Good luck !
 
Thanks again everyone. I can get 8-9, but I'd be travelling well under the speed limits in my area (40-50/hr). :) I guess I'm fixated on the leaf range chart and those wonderful numbers that I cannot seem to get even though I know I'm a very conservative driver. Yes, the tires seem fairly new with lots of tread (no nubbies), so I suspect the original owners put the cheapest tires they could upon its lease return. I'll be swapping the tires for winters come November-December and maybe grab a spring sale of new tires down the line. I must say I have been putting a tonne more reading into the forum that I ever expected. You all rock with your patience. Again, appreciated.
 
MPScotia said:
Thanks again everyone. I can get 8-9, but I'd be travelling well under the speed limits in my area (40-50/hr). :) I guess I'm fixated on the leaf range chart and those wonderful numbers that I cannot seem to get even though I know I'm a very conservative driver. Yes, the tires seem fairly new with lots of tread (no nubbies), so I suspect the original owners put the cheapest tires they could upon its lease return. I'll be swapping the tires for winters come November-December and maybe grab a spring sale of new tires down the line. I must say I have been putting a tonne more reading into the forum that I ever expected. You all rock with your patience. Again, appreciated.
If you can get them and they are reasonably priced compared to good snow tires, I might suggest Michelin Cross Climate tires. They have decent RR and are one of the few all-season tires to get the 3-snow peak approval for winter use. They are basically decent winter tires, also rated for summer use. Otherwise if you are fine swapping tires spring/fall then something like the Ecopia's for summer use and maybe Michelin X-ice 3's for the winter, which would be even better than the Cross Climates in the winter. Nothing really beats the low RR of the Ecopia's but I no longer will use them in the winter due to sub-standard traction.
 
I've never run all-weather or all-seasons in the winter. I've always gone steel wheels with dedicated winters. Winter Slalom KSIs were the best I've ever had (never liked the X-ice on our Subaru), but I don't like cheaping out on winters either way.
 
MPScotia said:
I've never run all-weather or all-seasons in the winter. I've always gone steel wheels with dedicated winters. Winter Slalom KSIs were the best I've ever had (never liked the X-ice on our Subaru), but I don't like cheaping out on winters either way.
Yes, I should have known better than telling a Canuck about snow tyres :lol:
No doubt, dedicated snows are are the way to go in areas that get a lot of snow and aren't particularly quick on getting it plowed, I was just mentioning the Cross Climate's for people like myself that live in snowy areas but are pretty quick on getting it plowed and out of the way. Cross Climates are much better in the winter than all seasons and don't have the downside of having to be changed out twice/year. In your case I'd go with the all season :roll: Ecopias for your summer tyres that give maximum range and whatever snow tyres you like for the winter and suffer some range loss, better than landing in the ditch.
Our friends in western ON run with studs in the winter for maximum traction but I know not all areas of CA allow them, they live in the sticks.
 
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