Battery Degrading

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pinstr4car

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2021
Messages
7
Hello, I have a 2015 leaf with 46k miles and battery just dropped to 10 bars. I've recently learned that my 120volt charge (6kw ) matches the mileage with the guess o meter. However, of I charge on level II 240 V, the guess o meter mileage is 5-7 miles less than actual mileage. My theory is the 240v charge heats the Li-Ion more therefore using more energy and getting less mileage per charge as compared to 120v and getting more... Has anyone else experienced this? and if so, is there a simple solution as to getting more mileage per charge?
 
First, welcome. Now, do you charge at L-2 240 at home, or do you drive to a charging station elsewhere? If the latter, then the answer is that the Guess O Meter has a different set of data to use for its usually-wrong estimate. If both charging stations or cables are in the same place, then that's interesting.
 
pinstr4car said:
Hello, I have a 2015 leaf with 46k miles and battery just dropped to 10 bars. I've recently learned that my 120volt charge (6kw ) matches the mileage with the guess o meter. However, of I charge on level II 240 V, the guess o meter mileage is 5-7 miles less than actual mileage. My theory is the 240v charge heats the Li-Ion more therefore using more energy and getting less mileage per charge as compared to 120v and getting more... Has anyone else experienced this? and if so, is there a simple solution as to getting more mileage per charge?

240V charging is more (not less) efficient, as the cooling pump runs for less time. Pack heating should be minor even at a 4 hour charge rate.

Also I'm not sure I understand what you're claiming. First of all, 120V charge is not 6kW, more like 1.4kW. Also you claim the 240V charge causes the guessometer to read "low" but then you seem to assert that 240V is giving you LESS range? Not sure what to tell you other than the guessometer is somewhat (and sometimes less than) useless. If you want more insight into how your battery is performing, look for threads in the forum on the "LeafSpy" smartphone app.
 
pinstr4car said:
Hello, I have a 2015 leaf with 46k miles and battery just dropped to 10 bars. I've recently learned that my 120volt charge (6kw ) matches the mileage with the guess o meter. However, of I charge on level II 240 V, the guess o meter mileage is 5-7 miles less than actual mileage. My theory is the 240v charge heats the Li-Ion more therefore using more energy and getting less mileage per charge as compared to 120v and getting more...
The opposite is true. More losses with L1 (120V) charging. And in any case, losses do not change the amount of energy the battery can hold, it just means that more energy is metered.

Your car's battery capacity is what it is. Your choices are more efficient driving, a replacement battery, or a different car. LEAFers have been pinning for a not-expensive, warranted replacement from Nissan a long time without any progress. There are a handful of people who have put packs from salvage cars in their cars but you have find a pack and be local to an installer you trust.

You can adopt habits that slow down battery degradation. Search the forum if interested.
 
SageBrush said:
You can adopt habits that slow down battery degradation. Search the forum if interested.

For starters, DO NOT live where I live! My battery temp guage has been stuck at two notches above normal now for weeks.

Might have something to do with the fact we hit 119F a few days ago.
 
Sounds like you're in Arizona or new Mexico!.. yes, extreme heat is an enemy to our leaf battery, just as extreme cold.. do you notice a difference on mileage driven with 115v vs 250v charge?
 
I do the 120 volt at home with factory cable, it charges at 5 miles per hr of charge. I use my trip Meter to compare actual driving distance with guess o meter. I then drive to a location at work with 240 level 2 charge.. I reset my trip odometer and compare my return trip home of 16 miles. The guess o meter drops from starting number to around 20 miles less for trip, therefore showing usage of 4-5 ;miles more than same trip using the 120 v charge.. even tho 240v charges more efficient (15 miles/charge hr) it seems to use more mileage than 120v charge, I just thought the quicker charge causes a higher temperature charge in a shorter period of time... Also of interest is that of you put transmission in B mode, it will Regen more aggressively and can actually add a few miles to your trip at various stops
 
danrjones said:
SageBrush said:
You can adopt habits that slow down battery degradation. Search the forum if interested.

For starters, DO NOT live where I live! My battery temp guage has been stuck at two notches above normal now for weeks.

Might have something to do with the fact we hit 119F a few days ago.

LOL, no idea why you are taking offense to SageBrush's comment. There are clearly several things one can do to reduce battery degredation, but controlling your local climate isn't one of them, unless you are an all powerful god :lol:

Owning a LEAF in a hot climate was a choice that many would argue wasn't a good one on your part. I don't know how you can honestly complain about battery degradation - it's been a known problem with LEAFs for a decade...
 
I'm not complaining at all, I live in central Florida where temps are In 90s 8 months out of the yr.. I think you misunderstood, I'm just looking for validation on 120v charge vs 240 level 2 and the reduced mileage that comes with higher voltage charges.. otherwise I love my leaf.. have been a Prius owner to 15 yrs!
 
You seem to be coming to the conclusion that you get better efficiency from electricity added when charging at 120V vs. 240V, based upon numbers you see on the GOM. Don't believe the LEAF's GOM, it will fool you every time.
 
As I wrote earlier, you can't use the GOM to provide consistent information. The L-1 120 volt charging cable generally provides about 3-4 miles per hour of range. The fact that you believe it gives 5 miles per hour indicates that either you drive VERY efficiently, or that your calculations are not accurate enough. The only way that you could do this calculation accurately would be if the 120 and 240 volt charging stations or cables were in the exact same location.
 
Yes, that's what Ive heard about the gom.. hopefully my leaf won't be losing another bar soon.. I guess I find it strange that battery energy and mileage go down quicker when charging with 240v as compared to120v.. that doesn't make sense to me, it really shouldn't matter and as it's been stayed, 240v is more efficient.
 
pinstr4car said:
Yes, that's what Ive heard about the gom.. hopefully my leaf won't be losing another bar soon.. I guess I find it strange that battery energy and mileage go down quicker when charging with 240v as compared to120v.. that doesn't make sense to me, it really shouldn't matter and as it's been stayed, 240v is more efficient.
The logic of 120v vs. 240v charging having a difference in range/capacity isn't making sense because it's not reality.

Think of it this way... you have a bucket that needs filled with water. You have a choice between a using soda straw vs. a garden hose. One tube is smaller & slower than the other. Both eventually deliver the same amount of water, one just takes longer. And unfortunately your bucket can't hold as much because the top was cut off.

More likely some other factor in your own unique drive is making the difference. Are you going uphill one direction and downhill the return trip? Are the speed & traffic flow patterns different? Are you using different levels of air conditioning (or heat) on either trip? Is one direction into the wind and the other direction with a tail wind? Those are the types of factors that influence range.

My own commute usually takes slightly more energy on the return trip, likely due to changes in altitude (@ 400 ft overall) and speed & wind direction factors. When my previous leaf (24KWh) had lost a minor amount of capacity, I had to pick a different return route some days. Fortunately, was able to skip the freeway and cut some miles off by using a 40 mph road that snakes along a scenic river valley where the road speeds and winds (and stress levels) are significantly lower.
 
alozzy said:
danrjones said:
For starters, DO NOT live where I live! My battery temp guage has been stuck at two notches above normal now for weeks.

Might have something to do with the fact we hit 119F a few days ago.

LOL, no idea why you are taking offense to SageBrush's comment.
I read DanJones' comment to say his locality is being scorched by the heat dome. I didn't discern any underlying message other than the one we all know -- the battery is going to suffer in 119F weather no matter what the owner does.
 
Thanks for the analogy on the straw and hose theory.. that makes sense.. regards to my drive it's the same flat drive I live in Central Florida I go through the same set of five stop lights the same road the same traffic all within 3 hours of each other as far as driving to and from work so even the temperature doesn't change that much it could be the wind though I did notice the other day I could feel the wind coming on my home trip but I have compared coming home on the 110 charge versus coming home on the 240 charge and it still seems to show more energy loss on the same return trip with the same variables 110 versus 240 just curious that's all it's not a big deal an extra 5 Mile loss isn't critical but when you've got the Gen one leaf, every mile makes a difference when you only have a 75 mi range LOL
 
Your drive in each direction is NOT the same; and for that matter, your drive in one direction does not stay the same throughout the day. Moreover, you are relying on gauges that are known to be inaccurate and non-linear, and your observations suffer from confirmation bias.

It is hard to set up an experiment that controls for all effects other than the one you are interested in. That is why scientists have jobs. And why scientists rely on statisticians, who in turn rely on larg(er) data sets.
 
SageBrush said:
alozzy said:
danrjones said:
For starters, DO NOT live where I live! My battery temp guage has been stuck at two notches above normal now for weeks.

Might have something to do with the fact we hit 119F a few days ago.

LOL, no idea why you are taking offense to SageBrush's comment.
I read DanJones' comment to say his locality is being scorched by the heat dome. I didn't discern any underlying message other than the one we all know -- the battery is going to suffer in 119F weather no matter what the owner does.

Yes, I wasn't taking offense or complaining about anything. I never expected to keep the car for long, and Nissan's warranty isn't bad.
But if you DID plan to keep it, or wanted to road trip it, 119f could be a issue. I just find it funny my temp gauge has been elevated for so long.
 
danrjones said:
SageBrush said:
alozzy said:
LOL, no idea why you are taking offense to SageBrush's comment.
I read DanJones' comment to say his locality is being scorched by the heat dome. I didn't discern any underlying message other than the one we all know -- the battery is going to suffer in 119F weather no matter what the owner does.

Yes, I wasn't taking offense or complaining about anything. I never expected to keep the car for long, and Nissan's warranty isn't bad.
But if you DID plan to keep it, or wanted to road trip it, 119f could be a issue. I just find it funny my temp gauge has been elevated for so long.

Sorry for misunderstanding, my bad.
 
alozzy said:
Sorry for misunderstanding, my bad.

No big deal at all. Actually, it was good to see my Leaf worked just fine at 119f. Tied the all time record high.
I considered driving down to DV to stand at the thermometer there at the visitor's center, but ended up busy. I think they hit 130f.
 
danrjones said:
alozzy said:
Sorry for misunderstanding, my bad.

No big deal at all. Actually, it was good to see my Leaf worked just fine at 119f. Tied the all time record high.
I considered driving down to DV to stand at the thermometer there at the visitor's center, but ended up busy. I think they hit 130f.

I can relate, although fortunately that kind of heat is rare in Vancouver. We did though have temps around 117 F a couple of weeks ago - definitely a global warming event
 
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