Bought 2019 sv non plus am I hosed in Minnesota?

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Bombastinator

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2021
Messages
9
I just bought a used 2019 leaf sv that apparently came from vermont. It has the cold weather package and I was told it has the useful battery heater but I am wondering if I was lied to. Is this car safe in a Minnesota winter? Do I need to take it back?
 
Why do you think that you were lied to...? If it has the heated steering wheel and front seats, then it has the All Weather Package, and if it has that, then it also has the battery warmer.
 
You can usually view the original sales sticker by looking up the VIN on the Nissan CPO website. If you post back with your VIN number, I can review the sales sticker for you.

Otherwise, follow the instructions here: https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23716&start=40#p535946
 
Based upon my reading the service manual, I believe all of the USA 2019 non-plus Leafs have the battery heater (even if they don't have the cold weather package). As a reminder, range is less in winter due to cabin heater use, increased rolling resistance of cold tires, and slightly reduced energy storage capability of cold battery pack.
 
I’m not worried about reduced range. I actually don’t need much range. I do not often drive more than 10 miles a day or less. 40 is quite unusual. My worry is that according to the manual the battery freezes at temperatures that are normal winter weather here. Freezing almost any kind of rechargeable battery is very bad. I specifically bought the year I did because there was a battery heater improvement in the form of apparently a heat pump rather than resistive tape which was apparently not adequate in my area. I didn’t know to specifically use the term “heat pump” when I got the car because I was under time pressure and specific info was hard to find on the car I bought. I merely asked and was told it had winterization. Looking at the manual after actually picking up the car though it seems that while there are options like a heated seat, the battery still will freeze. I am quite worried.

Someone asked for the VIN number. 1n4az1cp5kc308877
 
I don't think you should worry about the battery heater. Your car has the All Weather Package which comes as an option and includes the heat pump system. This heat pump is for the interior of the car and is more efficient when heating in the range of roughly 20F - 60F. It is basically just an (cabin) AC that runs 'in reverse' to heat the inside of the car instead of using resistive heating for this job. It won't generate much heat when it is very cold so at that point resistive heaters are used.

As far as I know, there were very few Leaf's made without battery heaters and these were the early 2011 models. Any Leaf can have the battery freeze if it runs out of power but this could only happened if the battery charge level is allowed to go to 0% and the car sits in sub-zero (F) temperatures for a number of days.

I didn't see any mention of a battery heater in the 2019 SV spec sheet but I assume that is because Nissan has put the heaters in all batteries for some time. The 2011 Leaf's without the heater had different HV battery connections and part numbers due to the lack of heater and I haven't heard anyone mention that difference on a 2019 model or any model after 2012.

Finally, the battery has a huge thermal mass. It takes a long time for it to change temperature significantly. There are many Leaf's in Norway, Finland, Minnesota, Canada and other cold areas and I have yet to hear of anyone having trouble with their battery freezing. Just don't let it sit outside at very low state of charge for extended periods (weeks) and you should be fine.
 
Bombastinator said:
I’m not worried about reduced range. I actually don’t need much range. I do not often drive more than 10 miles a day or less. 40 is quite unusual. My worry is that according to the manual the battery freezes at temperatures that are normal winter weather here. Freezing almost any kind of rechargeable battery is very bad. I specifically bought the year I did because there was a battery heater improvement in the form of apparently a heat pump rather than resistive tape which was apparently not adequate in my area. I didn’t know to specifically use the term “heat pump” when I got the car because I was under time pressure and specific info was hard to find on the car I bought. I merely asked and was told it had winterization. Looking at the manual after actually picking up the car though it seems that while there are options like a heated seat, the battery still will freeze. I am quite worried.

Someone asked for the VIN number. 1n4az1cp5kc308877
Please take a few deep breaths and relax. Your Leaf will be fine in the cold. A few practices will likely help. Do you have access to parking inside a garage or sheltered downwind from the wind & weather? Are you able to Level 2 charge the car in that parking location? Does your car have a DCFC port? Some cold weather practices I've found helpful is to park inside if the overnight temps drop below @ 10F (normally mine is parked outside with the L2 run under the garage door). Charging/discharging activity helps keep heat in the battery so plug it in and use the cabin heater to exercise the battery. The garage helps retain the battery heat and blocks the wind-chill effect on the car, and reduces the overall amount of energy it consumes. I've seen some crazy cold nights where I used mine as a space heater inside the garage by leaving the windows down. There have also been times where a DCFC session was used to warm the batteries.
 
Maybe I was not clear in my previous reply--the 40 kWh 2019 Leafs have internal battery heaters so you will be fine as long as you don't leave the car parked in cold weather for extended time while deeply discharged.
 
Are you able to Level 2 charge the car in that parking location? Does your car have a DCFC port? Some cold weather practices I've found helpful is to park inside if the overnight temps drop below @ 10F (normally mine is parked outside with the L2 run under the garage door).

Actually, L-1 charging can work better, as it can take many hours for the car to get full, and during that time the 300 watt battery heater won't drain the battery.
 
I have potential access to a garage. I will have to make space though which will likely cost some money as in getting older. Also there a lot of crap in there. When I built the garage I had it made ready for lvl2 but my friend who is an electrician went through it and used a few bad words. WHY?! was mentioned several times. It seems to get usable lvl 2 I will have to have an electrician over again. Kinda wanting to hire my friend at this point. I don’t know if it’s possible. He’s Union which means he’s better trained and he also used to own a leaf, but hiring Union electrical work can be difficult in my area. Atm I’ve got lvl1 from the temp charger that came with the car which seems to be adequate ftm. I was afraid it wasn’t at first, but I discovered the previous owner had it set to charge only between midnight and 6am. I turned that off and it charged fully between uses.

This is one thing I’m having trouble finding out: what chemistry are my batteries? Different chemistries have different charge needs for logevity. There was one design for example where you wanted to run the thing between 20% and 80% for best longevity. I don’t k ow if I have those batteries though.
 
Bombastinator said:
I have potential access to a garage. I will have to make space though which will likely cost some money as in getting older. Also there a lot of crap in there. When I built the garage I had it made ready for lvl2 but my friend who is an electrician went through it and used a few bad words. WHY?! was mentioned several times. It seems to get usable lvl 2 I will have to have an electrician over again. Kinda wanting to hire my friend at this point. I don’t know if it’s possible. He’s Union which means he’s better trained and he also used to own a leaf, but hiring Union electrical work can be difficult in my area. Atm I’ve got lvl1 from the temp charger that came with the car which seems to be adequate ftm. I was afraid it wasn’t at first, but I discovered the previous owner had it set to charge only between midnight and 6am. I turned that off and it charged fully between uses.
Can you better describe what you mean by having your garage ready for Level 2? Do you have a 240V plug somewhere? If so, what is the amperage of the breaker it is connected to?

Is the "temp charger" you got with the car an original from Nissan? Does it have an adapter on the end of the plug? If so it might be capable of Level 2 charging when plugged into a 40A 240v circuit.

Bombastinator said:
This is one thing I’m having trouble finding out: what chemistry are my batteries? Different chemistries have different charge needs for logevity. There was one design for example where you wanted to run the thing between 20% and 80% for best longevity. I don’t k ow if I have those batteries though.
2019 has the latest Leaf battery chemistry. Running between 20% and 80% is best practice for any EV battery but it's not an ironclad rule; the car is meant to be used. The most important thing is not to leave it 100% charged in warm weather.
 
That is the issue. I had a whole seperate 1000amp service put in the garage and asked the electricians to put in level 2 plugs. Basically the didn’t. They put in the breakers for them all 15 amps, and there was one actual working socket, even though it’s the smallest type and I could only find one charger on Amazon that even fit it. The other two breakers don’t even have wires coneected to them. I have a friend who is a electrician who went through the thing and was very very angry about the job done. Basically I’ve got a service that can take level2, WOULD take level3 if I could get it, but currently connects to nothing actually useful except 110. Basically I’m going to have to get another electrician in to make the thing actually useful for level2. The only bright side is I drive so very rarely and such short distances that I can actually get away with level1. It’s probably going to be thousands. Again.
 
L-1 can actually be more useful for keeping the battery warm, by charging the car for much longer. It will be able to stay ahead of the battery warmer's modest but real power consumption as well.
 
The LEAF has been fine in Canada and Norway if that makes you feel any better. I really would not worry too much. Just don't run your battery go down to 0 (ideally not below 20).

L2 is typically on a 50amp breaker, don't worry about that right now. l1 charging can actually be fine for your driving and it helps heat the battery (you should have a battery heather as well) just get a good gauge extension cord if you must, not a cheap one. This "temp charger" that comes with the car you can use forever. Based on the low amount of driving you do I am not sure I'd bother with installing a 50amp breaker and a NEMA 14-50 outlet and mounting an EVSE (all of which I did but I drive more).

On a plus vs a non plus, in your case I see no reason to get a plus just based on how far you said you drive. Even in Minnesota or even Alberta or whatever you won't need a plus with short distance driving.
 
Bombastinator said:
Basically I’ve got a service that can take level2, WOULD take level3 if I could get it....
Level 1 is 110v AC, Level 2 is 240v AC, Level 3 is DC fast charging.
Level 3 installations cost at least 4 figures, and no one has them at home.

If you really do have a 100A panel in your garage, it shouldn't be too hard for your friend to run a 240V circuit for you. Just the cost of wire and a new breaker.
 
Well not no one. Not many though. Level2 is going to cost me four figures. Again. Makes an argument for me to look into level 3 as I’m going to have to drop a chunk of change just to get level 2. My memory is level 3 is 3 phase though so it may be flat out unavailable. Even with a 1000amp service to my garage the best I may be able to do is point 50 amps of that at my car.
 
L3 means the EVSE is actually the charger. It converts whatever AC power it receives into the 400+V DC source that directly charges the HV battery of the car. As such, it must monitor and control the voltage and current supplied to the battery to properly charge it. There is a lot of complexity and engineering involved. These are not consumer devices.

With L1 or L2 the EVSE only supplies AC power to the and the car's on-board charger creates the high voltage DC levels and monitors the battery, etc.
 
Bombastinator said:
Well not no one. Not many though. Level2 is going to cost me four figures. Again. Makes an argument for me to look into level 3 as I’m going to have to drop a chunk of change just to get level 2.
I meant to say it would take five figures (not four) to install a residential Level 3 charger. So a LOT more than level 2. Which is why I’ve never heard of anyone doing it.

But honestly if you only drive 10-40 miles per day as you said, you will be fine with just Level 1.
 
So it seems. It didn’t at first but I discovered that a previous owner had set it to charge only between midnight and 6am. After I turned that off it was much better.
 
oxothuk said:
I meant to say it would take five figures (not four) to install a residential Level 3 charger. So a LOT more than level 2. Which is why I’ve never heard of anyone doing it.

But honestly if you only drive 10-40 miles per day as you said, you will be fine with just Level 1.
That's not the case. There was one or two people here on the forum who have residential CHAdeMO units. IIRC, there are 20kW units you can get for about $5000.

But are you said, the OP definitely doesn't need one.
 
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