cdevidal
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First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:27 am

If I'm buying first gen with 65k miles on it, approximately how long will the battery last before it needs replacing? I tried searching Google on the expected battery life, didn't get solid answers.

Mother-in-law drives less than 5,000 miles per year. Her longest trip is a weekly shopping jaunt, about 30 miles round-trip including all stops. She does not drive fast. She does idle it quite a bit. There is a two mile fast stretch where she goes 55mph, and the rest she goes about 45mph. There is a CHAdeMO charger in town and I told her she could sit for ten minutes which from what I am reading should add about 30 miles on a fresh battery, so I guessed that 10 minutes gives 10 miles of driving on an aging battery. That should get her the 10 miles back to her house. She may sometimes tow a trailer with up to 1,000 pounds.

Need to avoid getting into a situation where we buy her a car to then turn around and replace the battery within ten years, or where she has to think a lot to avoid being stranded. MUST be dependable.

LeftieBiker
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:32 am

Unless the climate is cool (Think the UK or cooler parts of Canada) the 1st gen batteries, used through March of 2013, are not a great bet. Some do hold up tolerably well, but it's hard to predict that, other than by local climate.
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Stanton
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:38 am

cdevidal wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:27 am
Need to avoid getting into a situation where we buy her a car to then turn around and replace the battery within ten years, or where she has to think a lot to avoid being stranded.
We really need a lot more info to make an intelligent recommendation, but I can pretty much guarantee you that the statement above won't be true for a Gen1 pack with that many miles.
2011 Blue Ocean SV
12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's low-power heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/85k miles

cdevidal
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:43 am

Stanton wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:38 am
cdevidal wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:27 am
Need to avoid getting into a situation where we buy her a car to then turn around and replace the battery within ten years, or where she has to think a lot to avoid being stranded.
We really need a lot more info to make an intelligent recommendation, but I can pretty much guarantee you that the statement above won't be true for a Gen1 pack with that many miles.
What more information do you need to know? Last person asked about climate. NE Florida. Long, hot, humid summers, brief but crisp winters.

If that many miles is not going to meet that criteria, how many miles? What is the expected life?

alozzy
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:56 am

Need to avoid getting into a situation where we buy her a car to then turn around and replace the battery within ten years, or where she has to think a lot to avoid being stranded. MUST be dependable.
On a gen 1 LEAF, residing in Florida, ten years from today that battery, if still even functional, will have pathetic range.

On the plus side, LEAFs depreciate quickly. So, in your shoes, so I would purchase a 2013 LEAF instead, keep it for maybe 5 years, then sell the 2013 and purchase a used 2018/2019 LEAF (with a 40 kWh pack) for cheap.

If you go that route, be careful which 2013 you buy! Those built in Q1 of 2013 have the crappier battery pack.

Pure speculation, but my guess is that a 2018, purchased in 2026, will be a $6,000 car.
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Stanton
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:21 pm

cdevidal wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:43 am
What more information do you need to know? Last person asked about climate. NE Florida. Long, hot, humid summers, brief but crisp winters.

If that many miles is not going to meet that criteria, how many miles? What is the expected life?
For example: detailed LeafSpy readings from the (prospective) Leaf.
But everything that was said about operating in a Florida climate is true (especially for a Gen1 pack).
2011 Blue Ocean SV
12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's low-power heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/85k miles

SageBrush
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:43 pm

OP,
"Expected life" cannot be answered,
But 5% range loss per year is ballpark

Towing a trailer may increase consumption 50%
AC use during a hot summer day might increase consumption 20 - 30% for short trips
You surely want 20 mile reserve (if not more) to avoid range anxiety

So .....
30 mile trip* 1.5x for towing = 45 miles
+20 mile reserve
0.25x for AC use: + 8 miles
1x for degradation over 10 years: + 45 miles

Look for a used 40 kWh LEAF
A Gen1 LEAF is no where close.

---
If you are the gambling type and you know what you are doing, buy a 30 kWh LEAF on the cheap and hope to win the battery warranty lottery.
Last edited by SageBrush on Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cdevidal
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:24 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:43 pm
But 5% range loss per year is ballpark
Ballpark is all I was looking for, thanks.

GerryAZ
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Re: First gen battery life?

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:19 pm

LEAF is not rated for trailer towing, but quite capable of towing over 1,000 pounds. I will not repeat what others have already said, but will give some perspective from a hot climate. Battery capacity loss is much more a function of time rather than miles. A/C use and "idling" (sitting still with HVAC on) do not use much energy so they don't impact range too much. The original batteries in 2011, 2012, and early 2013 lost capacity rather quickly in hot climates so there are likely not too many of those cars around your area with reasonable range. To give you some perspective, Nissan replaced the original battery in my 2011 when it was down to about 70% capacity (I was still making my 52-mile total round trip commute with normal A/C use, but had almost nothing left when I got home each evening). The replacement battery was probably down to about 85% capacity when the car met its demise at a little over 50k miles and 3-1/2 years total use. My 2015 had normal gradual capacity loss until near the end when range really started to drop due to several weak cells limiting both maximum charge level and discharge depth. Realistic highway was down to about 40 miles with normal A/C use by the time I traded it after 4-1/2 years and over 82k miles. The larger battery in the 2019 is doing much better after 20 months and over 30k miles so far and it has so much range that I charge every few days instead of every night. It is still at between 93% and 94% of original capacity (will have more accurate numbers after my next full discharge test which I do every 3 months). The bottom line is that the 2015 battery was much better than the 2011 and the 2019 battery is much better so far than the 2015.

You mentioned a quick charging station nearby which is good if/when you need it. I will not recommend an EV to anyone unless they have capability for normal charging at home because public charging is more expensive than charging at home and the need to depend on public charging greatly reduces the convenience of driving electric.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
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cdevidal
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2021

Re: First gen battery life?

Sun May 02, 2021 4:50 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:19 pm
You mentioned a quick charging station nearby which is good if/when you need it. I will not recommend an EV to anyone unless they have capability for normal charging at home because public charging is more expensive than charging at home and the need to depend on public charging greatly reduces the convenience of driving electric.
She would also charge at home.

Good info, thanks for helping set expectations.

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