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Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:11 am
by SageBrush
jlv wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:31 am
jjeff wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:29 pm
It's very rare for an EV to charge at more than 30a
Rare? The majority of plug-in EVs sold in North America can L2 charge at 48A.
The majority of EVs sold in the US are Tesla, but only some Teslas take up to 48 Amps. IIRC, the 'standard range' models are limited to 32 Amps.

What is your reference ?

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:39 am
by jlv
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:11 am
The majority of EVs sold in the US are Tesla, but only some Teslas take up to 48 Amps. IIRC, the 'standard range' models are limited to 32 Amps.
Oh, I didn't realize the standard range models had limited chargers in them. I thought they all took 48A at a minimum. I stand corrected.

Still, it's not "rare" (a statement that might have been true a few years ago).

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:44 am
by SageBrush
jlv wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:39 am
Still, it's not "rare" (a statement that might have been true a few years ago).
.
Granted, but it is rare outside of Tesla. VW is the only other company I know of that offers 48 Amps in at least some models. It may be true that the future is 48 Amps though since Europe and other 3 phase countries are well served by three 16 Amp charger sub-assemblies and we might be happy beneficiaries of streamlined manufacturing. Alternatively, N. America supply can be offered with two 16 Amp sub-assemblies to make 32 Amps single phase, but 40 Amps is an odd-ball for manufacturing.

I doubt N. America residential will widely adopt 60 Amp circuits but it is nice when I am out and about without DC fast charging to find 48 Amp hard-wired stations. They make for reasonably convenient destination charging (even though my fingers are crossed for reasonably inexpensive to install and ubiquitous 20 - 25 kW DC stations. Like CHAdeMO in Japan) ;)

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm
by jjeff
jlv wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:39 am
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:11 am
The majority of EVs sold in the US are Tesla, but only some Teslas take up to 48 Amps. IIRC, the 'standard range' models are limited to 32 Amps.
Oh, I didn't realize the standard range models had limited chargers in them. I thought they all took 48A at a minimum. I stand corrected.

Still, it's not "rare" (a statement that might have been true a few years ago).
And I guess when I said "rare" I wasn't thinking of Tesla, I stand corrected in that respect. I suppose instead of rare I should have said, uncommon outside of Tesla. I personally would love as fast L2 charging as I could get. Well, I suppose the 48a that Tesla uses is probably as high one could go and still be within the 50a rating of a standard 14-50 RV outlet being fed by a 60a circuit continuous duty.
In the nonTesla world I also believe Mercedes had a higher charging current on one of their older EVs but 32a does really seem to be the maximum most non-Tesla mfgs. seem to want to go and others like our Leafs don't even go that high and still others seem to max out at 16a, although I'm not sure how many EVs with larger batteries only do 16a. I'm more thinking of older ones or even the 16kwh Rav4 PHEV I have on order where it maxes out at 16a unless I'd want to get the top of the top line model, no thanks. I've had a 60a Juicebox Premium EVSE since '14 shortly after getting my '13 Leaf and the most it's ever seen is 27.5a :( Actually it's a good thing as my "60" amp Juicebox came factory with a cheap 14-50 range pigtail......that uses 10g wire :shock: yah back in the day Juicebox wasn't all that safety orientated like they've become of late. Of course I could always upgrade that pigtail or hardwire the EVSE and then I'd be able to pull the full 60a rating but as is 32a would be more than enough for that 10g pigtail.

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:15 pm
by Wavebender
Just to update, the electrician is coming in a few days to install a 50a circuit in our garage. Will upload photos (if my Goldmember status ever materializes, that is).

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:26 pm
by SageBrush
jjeff wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm
Well, I suppose the 48a that Tesla uses is probably as high one could go and still be within the 50a rating of a standard 14-50 RV outlet being fed by a 60a circuit continuous duty.
If I am not mistaken, a 14-50r is limited to 40 Amps continuous.

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:39 am
by jjeff
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:26 pm
jjeff wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm
Well, I suppose the 48a that Tesla uses is probably as high one could go and still be within the 50a rating of a standard 14-50 RV outlet being fed by a 60a circuit continuous duty.
If I am not mistaken, a 14-50r is limited to 40 Amps continuous.
Actually from what I've read the outlet itself is rated for a full 50a continuous, it's just that most 50a breakers are only 80% duty rated, or 40a. I know the 14-50 outlet can be fed by either a 40 or 50a breaker as we don't really have 40a outlets, I'm not sure but doubt you could feed a 14-50 outlet with a 60a breaker which would be 48a continuous rated and ideal for a Tesla.....our resident electrician whitney is sure to know.....
Also not sure if you could purchase a 50a continuous rated breaker, or how easy it would be to find but that would also work well with a 48a Tesla charger.

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:00 am
by rpiotro
My son bought a Tesla model Y a few months ago. He had the genuine Tesla level II charger installed. 60 amp breaker, 6 gauge wiring and it is hard wired. No plug-in. 48 amp charge rate.

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:00 am
by SageBrush
jjeff wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:39 am
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:26 pm
jjeff wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm
Well, I suppose the 48a that Tesla uses is probably as high one could go and still be within the 50a rating of a standard 14-50 RV outlet being fed by a 60a circuit continuous duty.
If I am not mistaken, a 14-50r is limited to 40 Amps continuous.
Actually from what I've read the outlet itself is rated for a full 50a continuous, it's just that most 50a breakers are only 80% duty rated, or 40a. I know the 14-50 outlet can be fed by either a 40 or 50a breaker as we don't really have 40a outlets, I'm not sure but doubt you could feed a 14-50 outlet with a 60a breaker which would be 48a continuous rated and ideal for a Tesla.....our resident electrician whitney is sure to know.....
Also not sure if you could purchase a 50a continuous rated breaker, or how easy it would be to find but that would also work well with a 48a Tesla charger.
It will be interesting to hear what Witney says.

I'm under the impression that the NEC wants the breaker and the receptacle to have the same Amp rating. It goes against my grain of common sense to have some components of the same rating have higher ampacity limits than others.

Re: A tale of two chargers

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:40 pm
by LeftieBiker
As long as all of the components are rated for the highest amperage used, and the breaker isn't rated too high to protect from smaller shorts (like a 60 amp breaker on a 30 amp circuit) there isn't any problem with, say, a 50 amp breaker for a 40 amp circuit - at least not AFAIK.