MaineEV
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:43 am
Delivery Date: 08 Mar 2020

Long drive?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:56 am

I’ve read many people saying that long drives aren’t good for battery longevity. What’s considered a long drive? Is my 32 mile each way highway Maine commute a long drive?

I’ve also read that the answer probably changes with the seasons.

Thanks.

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Long drive?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:16 pm

The length of a drive has nothing to do with battery longevity, beyond how it affects the depth of discharge (DoD) of the battery. The only factors that matter to battery longevity are:

* Heat. Hot batteries deteriorate faster, except for batteries like molten sodium that require it. (The Leaf does NOT use a molten sodium battery.)

* Depth of discharge. Lithium batteries are happiest between 20-25% state of charge (SOC) and 80% SOC. Going below 20% isn't considered a major factor in degradation, provided the battery is recharged immediately after the trip.

* Storage State of Charge. Storing a lithium battery at or near 100% SOC is not good for it. This may be the single largest factor in degradation, with many people wanting to keep maximum EV range available at all times. It's much better to keep the car near 50% SOC, with the option reserved to add charge from there if needed. This has become more feasible, as EVs have acquired higher capacity batteries with much more range.
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powersurge
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Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Long drive?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:18 am

MaineEV wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:56 am
I’ve read many people saying that long drives aren’t good for battery longevity. What’s considered a long drive? Is my 32 mile each way highway Maine commute a long drive?

I’ve also read that the answer probably changes with the seasons.

Thanks.
Well, any rechargeable battery has a planned lifetime of an XXX number of charge/ discharge cycles.

So, those maximum number of charge/ discharge cycles will be reached MOST quickly if you use the battery's entire charge (100% down to 0% or 10%) and then recharge/ discharge again the next day...

If you only drive the car and use a partial charge range of the battery (e.g., 60% to 40%) and then charge again to 60%, there will be minimum "wear" on the battery. Then the battery may last 2X or more number of charges.

SO, if you daily drain the battery down significantly, you will wear out the battery than if you only partially use the battery daily.. For example, construction contractors use their cordless drills so much that they use up their rechargeable batteries in only a few months, where a casual user will use the battery in a drill for years...

WetEV
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
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Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Long drive?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:30 am

powersurge wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:18 am
Well, any rechargeable battery has a planned lifetime of an XXX number of charge/ discharge cycles.
A Li-ion battery I have good test data on can do about 400 100% to 0% cycles to 80% capacity.
Or could do about 2000 100% to 50% cycles. Again to 80% capacity.
That's about 1000 "equivalent full cycles". Or about 2.5X the number of miles driven.
powersurge wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:18 am
If you only drive the car and use a partial charge range of the battery (e.g., 60% to 40%) and then charge again to 60%, there will be minimum "wear" on the battery. Then the battery may last 2X or more number of charges.
A 60% to 40% cycle is even better. More like 4500 equivalent full cycles. Or about 11X the number of miles driven.
powersurge wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:18 am
SO, if you daily drain the battery down significantly, you will wear out the battery than if you only partially use the battery daily.. For example, construction contractors use their cordless drills so much that they use up their rechargeable batteries in only a few months, where a casual user will use the battery in a drill for years...
Yep. And if they could learn to use only half of the battery before swapping, their batteries would last much longer.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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MaineEV
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:43 am
Delivery Date: 08 Mar 2020

Re: Long drive?

Sun May 31, 2020 12:03 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:16 pm

* Depth of discharge. Lithium batteries are happiest between 20-25% state of charge (SOC) and 80% SOC. Going below 20% isn't considered a major factor in degradation, provided the battery is recharged immediately after the trip.
Thanks for all the info.

Should I let the battery cool down some before recharging? Would my 30 something highway commute increase the battery temp?

smkettner
Posts: 7457
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Long drive?

Sun May 31, 2020 12:55 pm

MaineEV wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:56 am
I’ve read many people saying that long drives aren’t good for battery longevity. What’s considered a long drive? Is my 32 mile each way highway Maine commute a long drive?

I’ve also read that the answer probably changes with the seasons.

Thanks.
Long drive is 2x your full range or more in one swoop. 64 mile round trip commute is nothing to worry about.

Your battery temperature would increase just a nominal amount and have plenty of time to cool.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Long drive?

Sun May 31, 2020 1:13 pm

Should I let the battery cool down some before recharging? Would my 30 something highway commute increase the battery temp?
Don't assume that the battery will get hot on that short trip, as it likely won't, as noted above. If the weather is really hot, or it's 30 miles of climbing a mountain, then the battery may get hot for that reason. Bring up the battery temp gauge and if it goes beyond the left 1/2 of the range, let it cool to 1/2 before recharging. If you run the battery below 20%, then charge it to 25% or so while hot (don't use a quick charge station) and then let it cool before finishing.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1464
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
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Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Long drive?

Sun May 31, 2020 1:46 pm

You can always open the battery access door in the back seat floor and dump ice down on top of the battery.
It's crude but effective.

Is it really that hot there already?
I lived in Maine for 4 years.

coleafrado
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Long drive?

Sun May 31, 2020 2:38 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:46 pm
You can always open the battery access door in the back seat floor and dump ice down on top of the battery.
It's crude but effective.
Have you actually done this? There's a giant air gap between the cells and the shell. Dumped ice is not likely to do much, but a few gallons of chilled water a minute might help.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Long drive?

Sun May 31, 2020 3:14 pm

Guys, let's please not try to make new Leaf drivers think that they need to chill their batteries with ice or ice water.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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