wraith
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:01 am
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2019

Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:39 am

Hi All,

New to the forum. Apologies if this has been asked before. I have done a search through as a guest but don’t feel that I’ve found a topic that quite answers my query. Apologies, also, if this has been posted in the wrong forum.

I’m new to the EV market and considering a second hand Nissan Leaf. These aren’t that common in Perth, Western Australia. I’ve been discussing options with a dealer who has a number of Leaf’s cars brought in from Japan. Currently he is promoting, to myself, a 2015 Leaf, 92k on the odometer and 86% battery SoH [according to the Nissan LeafSpy output, here]. The only oddity is that it is being claimed that this is a new battery, replaced 8 – 10 months ago.

My first thought is that 14% degradation over 8 – 10 months is excessive, equating to 19% per annum! I suspect there is some miscommunication and that it is actually the original battery. If the original battery, this would be around 3.5% pa which seems more reasonable. Possibilities to me are, currently, for this battery is:
1. It is actually the original battery and there has been some confusion or mis-communication;
2. The battery has some inherent issues from the start, or;
3. Kilometres and number of charge events has more impact than I realise.

I have been discussing the various battery types [Canary, Wolf, Lizard etc.] and details [degradation rates etc.] but, I suspect, that the dealer has not come across these queries before. Therefore I thought it wise to get in contact with “specialists” to ensure my perception, opinion and facts are correct.

So, my questions are:
1. Is battery degradation logarithmic or more linear in nature? Is 19% pa over the first year actually excessive?
2. How does the quantity of charging events and km’s impact the degradation? It has done a few km’s and charges and, taking these into account, maybe the 19% is reasonable?
3. Can I tell the installation details for the battery from the LeafSpy output? Battery type [e.g. canary, lizard, wolf]? The code on the battery matches the code on his key ring although I didn’t match this, visually, to the car
4. Is basing the SoH on the range at 100% SoC reasonable [the above vehicle is stating 150km]. Based on my research and this forum, this is an estimate only and not as reliable as the LeafSpy output.

I am being offered a five year, unlimited km warranty but would like to avoid having to use it [means I’ve got a good car!]. It also avoids all the hassle of trying to provide whether a battery is faulty to begin with, what is fair degradation etc.

Thanks all and anyone for assistance.

Thanks
Matt

powersurge
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:23 am

On a 2015, a SOH of 85% shows that the original large "traction" battery is still in the car. I suspect that the battery that they told you was replaced was the 12V lead acid battery under the hood.. That battery runs the accessories like all cars do..

A 2015 really should not have had its original battery replaced, and a value of 85% is really kind of low for the ORIGINAL BATTERY to be showing... That number suggests that you will be losing a bar of capacity in the near future??

cwerdna
Posts: 10802
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:56 am

powersurge wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:23 am
On a 2015, a SOH of 85% shows that the original large "traction" battery is still in the car.
...
A 2015 really should not have had its original battery replaced, and a value of 85% is really kind of low for the ORIGINAL BATTERY to be showing... That number suggests that you will be losing a bar of capacity in the near future??
I'm not sure that any of mainland Japan generally gets and stays crazy hot like some places we have in the US like Phoenix or Vegas but it's possible the previous driver didn't practice great charging and storage habits. Agreed that 1st bar will be going away possibly soon.

85% isn't that low on a lizard pack. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24532&p=545757&hil ... 56#p545757 in blazing hot Indio, CA lost 4 bars on his lizard pack by Jan 2019...

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

wraith
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:01 am
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2019

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:00 am

Thanks powersurge.

Double checking, would 85% still be low given the odometer reading and number of charges? If I interpret correctly, I should be a little concerned with the 14% loss over four years. What would be a reasonable loss? Although, this may be hard to quantify given the number of factors. Given the factors, I thought 3.5% might actually be reasonable [maybe incorrectly so].

Good point with the 12V battery swap out. I'll go back and suggest that it may have been the 12V battery that was replaced.

I have been sent a photograph of the dash with the battery at 100%. On the right hand side are two bar sets. One that is blue and white and a much smaller vertical set. I'm assuming the blue and white are the measure of the SoH and smaller bars the current SoC [photo URL here]. I'll need to find the manual and have read.

Is losing a bar of capacity an issue? I was under the impression this is to be expected, at some point, given that the battery does degrade over time.

cwerdna
Posts: 10802
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:08 am

Your photo shows a fully charged car that is already down 1 capacity bar. Capacity bars are the thinnest ones all the way on the right, including the red ones.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

wraith
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:01 am
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2019

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:21 am

cwerdna wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:08 am
Your photo shows a fully charged car that is already down 1 capacity bar. Capacity bars are the thinnest ones all the way on the right, including the red ones.
When you mention "...already down 1 capacity bar." it doesn't instill confidence in me on the health of the battery. Or am I interpreting and shouldn't be too alarmed? Can I improve the SoH or mitigate future rate of degradation through improved maintenance and storage? At the moment, the most driving would be my wife to and from work [around 70km weekdays] and topping it up every night or on weekend from our solar panels. Should I be whipped for proposing that?

BillHolz
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:32 am
Delivery Date: 07 May 2016
Leaf Number: 322345
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:01 am

Assuming the 70KM is round trip (almost 44 miles), a 2015 with 1 bar down will do that without any issue for years to come.
2015 SV no QC
Lost 1st bar Oct 2019 44K miles

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15077
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:28 am

I agree with what's been written so far. 85% is a little low for a Lizard pack in a mild climate, likely indicating storage at high SOC, but treat it right and you should be fine for years.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

powersurge
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:33 am

A 2015, with 60K miles (with 85% SOH battery) is not a bad car... However, it all depends on the price.
I would guestimate that that car should go for about $10K Dollars American? Maybe less?

I would estimate that that car could go another 5 years/ 40-50,000 miles before you need a new battery?? That is not definitive, as I have not experienced the "life cycle" of a Leaf to the end of its battery life yet.

Additionally, I would be sure about availability of spare parts if there are no Leafs, (or Nissans?) in Australia? Your car can be brought down to the status of a paperweight by something. Small.

For example, my 2015 Leaf was hardly drivable when a $50 ABS wheel speed sensor crapped out. If you cannot get a new one, your car is stopped...

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15077
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:39 am

Speaking of climate, what is yours like, exactly? I know that some parts of Australia are fairly cool, but is your locale? I would define "cool" as days not usually getting above about 25C, and nights cooling off well below 20C. Hotter days with chilly nights wouldn't be too bad either. What degrades Lizard packs is constant heat: hot days with mild ( 20C to low twenties) nights, or very warm days followed by warm nights that don't allow the pack to cool.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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