Should I buy 2022 Leaf S Plus for commuting?

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JO2022

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2021
Messages
14
Hi,

The 2022 Leaf S Plus with a 62 kW battery has an advertised range of 225 +/- miles. I live in Massachusetts and winter temperatures are often in the mid 20's. My commute is 110 miles round trip and I often need to travel no more than 160 miles per day on a single charge from home, year round.

As we all know, it is hard to find CHaDeMo these days, but if I had to, I could stop at the Nissan dealership once in a while for a fast charge.

Is this the wrong car for me?

I am planning on purchasing this in November and if I can't reliably get 160 miles on a charge, it would be devastating.

Thanks...
 
It is the wrong car, if only because both the S and the S+ lack the heat pump that extends range in milder Winter weather. You'd want an SV+. You'll need to hear from people who actually drive a Leaf Plus that far in Winter in a similar climate, but my impression is that it will work, although possibly not in single digit or colder weather, unless you slow down a bit.
 
JO2022 said:
Hi,

The 2022 Leaf S Plus with a 62 kW battery has an advertised range of 225 +/- miles. I live in Massachusetts and winter temperatures are often in the mid 20's. My commute is 110 miles round trip and I often need to travel no more than 160 miles per day on a single charge from home, year round.

As we all know, it is hard to find CHaDeMo these days, but if I had to, I could stop at the Nissan dealership once in a while for a fast charge.

Is this the wrong car for me?

I am planning on purchasing this in November and if I can't reliably get 160 miles on a charge, it would be devastating.

Thanks...

Do you plan on driving +75 mph on the Interstate for that mileage or are you driving under 60 mph between towns and such? The air resistance is what will make the difference on that range, otherwise, you would get by easily, even in the winter with the heat blasting, provided you take the needed steps to prepare, like pre-warming the Leaf at your home on the plug to save range, keeping the tires inflated properly, replacing the 12 volt battery it comes with, getting an AGM or Lithium for example to tolerate the cold weather better, etc.
 
JO2022 said:
The 2022 Leaf S Plus with a 62 kW battery has an advertised range of 225 +/- miles. I live in Massachusetts and winter temperatures are often in the mid 20's. My commute is 110 miles round trip and I often need to travel no more than 160 miles per day on a single charge from home, year round.

As we all know, it is hard to find CHaDeMo these days, but if I had to, I could stop at the Nissan dealership once in a while for a fast charge.
Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "kW".

As for the latter statement, it is not here in CA. As for Nissan dealer, do NOT depend on them. They may not let you charge or it may be broken or blocked. Check Plugshare or CHAdeMO along your routes along w/scores and/or recent check-ins. Also look for J1772 as last resort backups.
 
replacing the 12 volt battery it comes with, getting an AGM or Lithium for example to tolerate the cold weather better,

The big remaining Achilles' Heel of the 12 volt lithium batteries, now that prices are more reasonable, is their behavior when charged while they are below freezing - they tend to burst into flames and/or explode. They have to be kept warm to prevent this. LiFePo4 lithium batteries are safer, but hold half the energy. I strongly suggest an AGM battery instead...
 
JO2022 said:
Hi,

The 2022 Leaf S Plus with a 62 kW battery has an advertised range of 225 +/- miles. I live in Massachusetts and winter temperatures are often in the mid 20's. My commute is 110 miles round trip and I often need to travel no more than 160 miles per day on a single charge from home, year round.

As we all know, it is hard to find CHaDeMo these days, but if I had to, I could stop at the Nissan dealership once in a while for a fast charge.

Is this the wrong car for me?

I am planning on purchasing this in November and if I can't reliably get 160 miles on a charge, it would be devastating.

Thanks...
I'd say no. The LEAF is the wrong car for you. Unless you have reliable charging at both home and work.


EPA range is not the range what you get, unless you drive like the EPA test. At higher speeds, you get less. At cold temperatures, you get less. Slush, less. Wind less.

I've driven in Massachusetts. Not the best driving environment.

When the car is new, on a bad day, cold, slush and wind, you might be close to running out of energy on just the commute. Much less the extra 40 miles.

And you want to maintain a reserve.


Then, it gets worse. The car will lose range with both cycles and time. Not quickly in the moderate climate, but it will.


So I don't think this car will meet your needs, especially over the long term.
 
If the OP could find a very favorable 3 year lease, especially if a business write-off is in the mix, then an SV Plus could work over 3 years.

Beyond 3 years though, it's not going to work as the pack will have degraded too much to consistently do the commute, especially in winter.

A Bolt would do it more comfortably.
 
LeftieBiker said:
replacing the 12 volt battery it comes with, getting an AGM or Lithium for example to tolerate the cold weather better,

The big remaining Achilles' Heel of the 12 volt lithium batteries, now that prices are more reasonable, is their behavior when charged while they are below freezing - they tend to burst into flames and/or explode. They have to be kept warm to prevent this. LiFePo4 lithium batteries are safer, but hold half the energy. I strongly suggest an AGM battery instead...

I think the caveat for that should be *bust into flames when overcharged with high current*, you can still charge them, just with much, much, less current to prevent the plating and shorting of the cells. Otherwise, how are people charging their Leaf in sub-zero temperatures without it bursting into flames? The Lithium in both my Leaf(s) have been through weeks of single digit temperatures and worked just fine, no fires, no issues starting, years and years on now. The poor charging that the Leaf system does for Lead, works to the advantage for the Lithium :D
Most commercially-available (auto) lithium battery packs have protections in place to prevent charging below a set temperature, even the ancient ones I use have it. ;)
 
alozzy said:
If the OP could find a very favorable 3 year lease, especially if a business write-off is in the mix, then an SV Plus could work over 3 years.

Beyond 3 years though, it's not going to work as the pack will have degraded too much to consistently do the commute, especially in winter.

A Bolt would do it more comfortably.

OP was looking at the plus version, 62 kWh, I don't see how that would not meet this 110 (round trip, not single) mile commute? Has anyone with a 2019 (from 2018 year) lost over half their range since now? If there is, I was not aware of them. :eek:
 
Thank you, I think it may end up being worth the extra $$$ to get Hyundai Kona with 279 mile range. Unfortunately, they are impossible to get right now and I'm not sure if they will be available by end of year. Based in the advice here, I have reservations about the leaf s plus range..

Oh, and thanks cwerdna for the kwh correction...

Ah, I see some hope from knightmb that was posted ad I write this. I'd rather get the leaf based on price.. but I am really on the fence about range. Thanks for the encouragement knightmb. It does seem that the commute will be ok, but I am concerned with the frequent incidentals that boost me up to 150 ish..

I'm not discounting the warnings at all. I'd like to get some more opinions if anyone else wants to chime in.. much thanks to all... I will have a lvl 2 home charger and leave for work with a near full charge. I am working on getting my employer to out in lvl 2 chargers at work and have applied for federal evip grant. I'm hoping the inability to charge at work will only be this winter...but I have to assume the worst. Really need close to 160 miles of reliable range.
 
knightmb said:
alozzy said:
If the OP could find a very favorable 3 year lease, especially if a business write-off is in the mix, then an SV Plus could work over 3 years.

Beyond 3 years though, it's not going to work as the pack will have degraded too much to consistently do the commute, especially in winter.

A Bolt would do it more comfortably.

OP was looking at the plus version, 62 kWh, I don't see how that would not meet this 110 (round trip, not single) mile commute? Has anyone with a 2019 (from 2018 year) lost over half their range since now? If there is, I was not aware of them. :eek:

Because you didn't read the OP's post properly...

My commute is 110 miles round trip and I often need to travel no more than 160 miles per day on a single charge from home, year round.

And later in the same post...

if I can't reliably get 160 miles on a charge, it would be devastating

Guaranteed 160 miles, in cold winter temps, with snow on the ground, some hills to climb, at highway speeds, and the heater running - is not a piece of cake for a 5 year old LEAF even with a 62 kWh pack. Even brand new, range under those conditions could easily be %70 of ideal summer range.

SOH on a 5 year old LEAF could be 80%, so 185 miles in ideal summer conditions at that age. Assuming a 30% drop in winter, that's 130 miles of range with the winter conditions I described.

The OP is likely a better candidate for a PHEV, unless he/she has a Tesla budget or waits another year or two for other long range EVs to come to market in the US.
 
alozzy said:
If the OP could find a very favorable 3 year lease, especially if a business write-off is in the mix, then an SV Plus could work over 3 years.

Beyond 3 years though, it's not going to work as the pack will have degraded too much to consistently do the commute, especially in winter.

A Bolt would do it more comfortably.
OP has a 110 mile commute so they would need a 30,000 mile a year lease. They're going to get a bad deal by leasing for that many miles.


I also have a 110 mile commute, but I live in the South and not in the Northeast so I don't have to deal with freezing weather much. I use between 55%-65% to drive 110 miles when temperatures are above 32F.

Would I recommend the Leaf for the OP? Probably not since they might need to drive 160 miles.
 
OP has a 110 mile commute so they would need a 30,000 mile a year lease. They're going to get a bad deal by leasing for that many miles.

Good point, I forgot about that as I would personally never do a lease so I often forget some of the restrictions of them
 
JO2022 said:
Thank you, I think it may end up being worth the extra $$$ to get Hyundai Kona with 279 mile range. Unfortunately, they are impossible to get right now and I'm not sure if they will be available by end of year. Based in the advice here, I have reservations about the leaf s plus range..

Oh, and thanks cwerdna for the kwh correction...
...
I'm hoping the inability to charge at work will only be this winter...but I have to assume the worst. Really need close to 160 miles of reliable range.
EPA range rating of Kona EV is 258 miles, not 279. See https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=44447&id=44444.

160 miles in the dead of winter below freezing w/snow on the ground will be a prob for a Leaf Plus. I usually tell people to expect to have their range cut from 1/3 to 1/2 in the winter and more like 1/2 in the below freezing conditions.

Check Plugshare the app or web site for CHAdeMO and CCS charging choices on your route.
 
I'm hoping the inability to charge at work will only be this winter...but I have to assume the worst. Really need close to 160 miles of reliable range.

Even charging on 120V receptacle at work would make the diff- no way to plug in at all?
 
WetEV said:
I'd say no. The LEAF is the wrong car for you. Unless you have reliable charging at both home and work.
...
...
So I don't think this car will meet your needs, especially over the long term.
1++

This post and Leftie's comment about the heat pump pretty much covers the question. Even L1 charging at work or nearby would make the LEAF practical.
 
alozzy said:
knightmb said:
alozzy said:
If the OP could find a very favorable 3 year lease, especially if a business write-off is in the mix, then an SV Plus could work over 3 years.

Beyond 3 years though, it's not going to work as the pack will have degraded too much to consistently do the commute, especially in winter.

A Bolt would do it more comfortably.

OP was looking at the plus version, 62 kWh, I don't see how that would not meet this 110 (round trip, not single) mile commute? Has anyone with a 2019 (from 2018 year) lost over half their range since now? If there is, I was not aware of them. :eek:

Because you didn't read the OP's post properly...

My commute is 110 miles round trip and I often need to travel no more than 160 miles per day on a single charge from home, year round.

And later in the same post...

if I can't reliably get 160 miles on a charge, it would be devastating

Guaranteed 160 miles, in cold winter temps, with snow on the ground, some hills to climb, at highway speeds, and the heater running - is not a piece of cake for a 5 year old LEAF even with a 62 kWh pack. Even brand new, range under those conditions could easily be %70 of ideal summer range.

SOH on a 5 year old LEAF could be 80%, so 185 miles in ideal summer conditions at that age. Assuming a 30% drop in winter, that's 130 miles of range with the winter conditions I described.

The OP is likely a better candidate for a PHEV, unless he/she has a Tesla budget or waits another year or two for other long range EVs to come to market in the US.

I would say you are making a lot of assumptions given the lack of information. The OP needs to post more details, otherwise, I would say the vehicle would work just fine. Might be ideal conditions, might be low speed driving, without more info though, I don't see any reason to change my opinion on it. ;)
 
Hi,

Thank you all for your feedback and sorry for some of my inaccuracies. I was researching and posting at using just a smart phone so my figures were hard to verify side by side. I now understand that the batteries are kWh (not KW) and that the Kona gets 258 miles, not 279. Thanks for taking the time make sure I am well informed.

Before asking the question, I was pretty confident that this car would work for me. Now I am not so sure and it is too important to get it right to take the chance.

The driving is mostly highway, at 70 mph... no more. Lots of traffic on the high way, so plenty of driving below 70 and braking. The car will be charged outside using level 2 and there are no plugs at work at the moment, not even for level 1 charging.

I have been using Everlance to track all my driving and the reality is that the 160 miles happened twice in the last 2 months, so I used that figure because it is worst case. The average is probably more like 135 miles. Given all of this information, I think the Kona would give me a little assurance and piece of mind.

I read this on a simple Kona SEL google... "The Kona Electric comes standard with heated seats, heated steering wheel, heat pump and a battery temperature management system, crucial for minimizing range loss during inclement weather. "

Thanks all for working through this with me, but I think waiting for the Kona is my only choice. It also uses CCS which is much more prevalent in my area. The only way to charge ChAdeMo is at Nissan dealerships because the few that are on plugshare are broken down and not being repaired. Hopefully Nissan improves the Leaf range for 2023, because it I like the car. It has more back seat space than the Kona. I will say that the Kona has more leg room for the driver, but not so much for back seat.
 
I noticed that someone recommended the PHEV. Unfortunately, PHEV is not cost effective if mostly highway miles. I drive a 2020 Nissan Sentra right now and I get 32 +/- MPG using the $20,000 car. The PHEV does better, but not enough better to justify the extra cost of the car, especially since there is little saving to be had on the highway vs. my existing car.

Thanks....
 
JO2022 said:
The driving is mostly highway, at 70 mph... no more. Lots of traffic on the high way, so plenty of driving below 70 and braking. The car will be charged outside using level 2 and there are no plugs at work at the moment, not even for level 1 charging.
Traffic will actually save you range, it cuts down on air resistance and usually is slower due to, well, being traffic.
The outside level 2 means you can always pre-heat/pre-cool the car before you leave for your commute, that saves a lot of miles that the battery won't have to spend to do it while driving. Once the cabin is up/down to the temperature you want, it doesn't take near as much power to maintain it, provided you don't have extremes set for heating and cooling. At this point, plan for no charging to get back and forth, only using the QC if needed for some extra side trip.
I have been using Everlance to track all my driving and the reality is that the 160 miles happened twice in the last 2 months, so I used that figure because it is worst case. The average is probably more like 135 miles. Given all of this information, I think the Kona would give me a little assurance and piece of mind.
If you were driving a +180 mile round trip work, I would have said, don't do it. But nothing I read here would discourage me from driving a *plus* version Leaf for that lifestyle of commute and personal use. I already know the *plus* Leaf has an extra +25 miles of hidden range, so hot or cold weather can eat that, but I still get the range listed in the dash. As other's have mentioned, extreme weather where you have a foot or more of snow and slush to drive through will eat up the range, but unless you are driving back-roads the entire way to work and forced to drive through it, I would imagine that your state is much better at clearing the roads than my state (TN) is. I've driven my Leaf through a foot of snow and slush, it actually drives quite well provided the tires match it, but it does eat range because of pushing your way through it is the same range eating effect that air has.

As far as battery aging, living in a colder climate means you will suffer, much, much less of that. I can't find any examples of a +3 year old *plus* Leaf EV with severely degraded range due to battery aging. They have only been out for that long now, so what happens in 5 or 10 years, no one knows yet, but you can rest assured, you will get 3 years without any problems with the range.

I've been driving Leaf(s) for nearly 10 years now, so I know the limits of what it can and can not do, down to the extreme level of battery depletion with the help of LeafSpy to monitor the technical limitations of the EV. So personally, I wouldn't even sweat it for the conditions you are describing in regards to the Leaf being reliable and able to perform in the extreme winter conditions you will face in it. It is a car after all, not a pickup truck. It will always have the same limitations that any Car will have in winter driving, no matter Gas or Electric.
 
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