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Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:47 pm
by AndyH ... ing-sites/
The killer or killers were specifically going after the Rhoden family, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader emphasized, though he didn't say why. The suspects are probably armed and a danger to surviving family members, he added.

"We have a specific family that's been targeted but I don't think there's been a threat to any other members of the community," he said. "I cautioned them they are a target and I cautioned them, 'Be armed.'"

Pike County has 30,000 residents and deputies cannot be everywhere to protect residents, Reader said. To the public he said, "I can tell you if you are fearful, arm yourselves."

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:30 pm
by WetEV
CHICAGO — The family of Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old boy whose fatal shooting by the Cleveland police in 2014 prompted national outrage, is set to receive $6 million from the city in a settlement announced Monday in federal court records.
As the case made national headlines, it was revealed that Officer Loehmann had resigned from another Ohio police department after a “dangerous loss of composure” during weapons training.
Hmmm. Maybe hiring police that fail firearms training isn't a good idea. $6 million could have paid for police that didn't fail weapons training.

Well regulated? It would seem not the Cleveland police. ... .html?_r=0

Of course, joe or jane random person on the street with no training wouldn't do any better.

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:17 pm
by WetEV
So many shootings today. Oh wait, it is just a normal day in the USA... 30+ violent and accidental shooting incidents. One is "defensive use of force". Typical day.

This one seems about the "best". ... e-shooting

Or maybe this: ... s-wounds-2

Or maybe this one. A shootout over a rap recording session. The people doing the shooting had to go to gun shows or other private sales to buy their guns, as they were all felons. Neighbors house hit with three bullets, with 4 year old twins sleeping inside. ... /83488112/

Or maybe the bus station shootings. Or the playground shooting. Or the body with bullet holes found in the park. Or the daycare parking lot shooting. Or the bowling alley shootings. Or the Burger King shootings. Or various drive by shootings. Intentional harm/suicide cases. So many shootings...

A fairly typical day.

Usually (2) twice as many accidents as defensive use of force by non-police. Today was a little worse than average, accidental shootings usually don't have multiple victims.

Usually (3) three times as many police involved shootings as defensive use of force by non-police.

Usually about (30) thirty times as many violent or accidental shootings as defensive use of force by non-police.

More suicides than violence and accidents.

About one child, under age 12, every two days. None today. So far.

Doesn't sound very "well regulated" to me. How about you?

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:32 am
by AndyH
Anti-anything tactics:
- Don't answer specific questions: check!
- Stuff anything and everything into the same box: check!
- Gish Gallop as often as possible: check!
- Work hard to ignore root cause analysis and simply jump to preferred "reason": check!

Wet - you've learned well from your time 'debating' climate with regguheert - congrats!

Keep on trolling Wet. Back to the ignore list.

I'm taking my .308 AR-10 to the range, then coming home and reloading more ammunition.

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:05 pm
by WetEV
Yet another example of not well regulated. ... ee-n562951

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:31 pm
by AndyH ... d_driving/
Each day in the United States, over 8 people are killed and 1,161 injured in crashes that are reported to involve a distracted driver.1

Distracted driving is driving while doing another activity that takes your attention away from driving. Distracted driving can increase the chance of a motor vehicle crash.
Distracted driving activities include things like using a cell phone, texting, and eating. Using in-vehicle technologies (such as navigation systems) can also be sources of distraction. While any of these distractions can endanger the driver and others, texting while driving is especially dangerous because it combines all three types of distraction.

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:05 pm
by AndyH
It was a very nice afternoon at the range today. Sunny, humid, and 83°F and enough mirage to make a spotting scope useless at 200 yards.

This was the first trip since I finished building my project gun where I could relax and work on marksmanship skills without having to tune or adjust the rifle. Using decent ammunition is a plus here. I don't know how companies get away with it, but 7.62x51 NATO - especially stuff made in Turkey (ZQI) is horribly inaccurate. Since January I thought the nasty shot groups were a result of my very rusty technique, a bad scope, or a lingering problem with the gun (or a combination I was missing). After tearing down almost 50 rounds of 7.62x51 from various companies I found that they had much more variability in powder charge - they weren't anywhere near as consistent as I expect NATO certified ammo to be.

So, for this trip, I focused on a box of Remington .308 hunting ammunition - soft point projectiles meant for deer - and a box of Federal Premium match grade. What a difference it made! Starting at 100 yards with the Remington, I was able to put 5 rounds in a 1 3/8" square from 100 yards. I moved out to 200 yards and while the spread doubled, it was still under 1.5 minutes of angle at 200 yards for the deer rounds - much better than expected! Switching to the Federal match grade ammunition, the first thing I noticed was that they fly a much flatter trajectory. They were slightly more accurate as well - about 1.2 MOA at 200 yards.

Meet my internet project - an AR platform rifle in .308 Winchester. All parts shipped to my door except the lower receiver - that was shipped to a local FFL where I did a normal background check. Thankfully the rifle breaks down easily - it wouldn't fit in the SMART otherwise. :lol:

AR-10, 20" barrel, Fixed A2 stock, and a Midwest Industries free-float foregrip. The basic Weaver scope is 2.5-7 power - I shoot at 4x.

Five rounds of Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain soft point at 100 yards. The outer red square is 1 15/16" on a side.

I've got plenty of work to do to shake the cobwebs out of my skills, but if today's an indication, I'm one step farther down the road towards a divorce from the industrial meat system.

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:29 am
by WetEV
AndyH wrote:I've got plenty of work to do to shake the cobwebs out of my skills, but if today's an indication, I'm one step farther down the road towards a divorce from the industrial meat system.
Nice for a few people. I also hunt.


Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:30 pm
by AndyH
Some here (hmmm...many here?) seem to be confused by the "well regulated" part of 2A. There also appears to be, in this thread as well as the forum as a whole, a very strong propensity to dissect first, then triumphantly hold aloft various bits without an apparent appreciation for the entirety of the organism from which the piece is excised. I've found both of the below to be useful.
Testimony of Eugene Volokh on the Second Amendment, Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution, Sept. 23, 1998.
Whether the Second Amendment Secures an Individual Right

The Second Amendment secures a right of individuals generally, not a right of states or a right restricted to persons serving in militias.

August 24, 2004


TL;DR - "well regulated" does not mean "we need more laws." Criminals are not protected by the 2A any differently than they are by the rest of the Bill of Rights. It's already illegal to kill another human without cause, to leave guns where children can get to them, to lead an armed insurrection, or any of the other things we don't like. About 1/3 of gun deaths in the US are due to suicide. Not surprisingly, those are up across the board. Want to reduce those? Reduce the root causes. As for the rest? Crime is down, murder is down, etc. Context is good. ... 6.abstract ... 0ccda3b5d8 ... 1626151cbb ... to_suicide

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery (Quotation)

This is actually a translation of a Latin phrase that Thomas Jefferson used: Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. It has also been translated as, "I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude."

Here is the sentence in context:

"Societies exist under three forms sufficiently distinguishable. 1. Without government, as among our Indians. 2. Under governments wherein the will of every one has a just influence, as is the case in England in a slight degree, and in our states in a great one. 3. Under governments of force: as is the case in all other monarchies and in most of the other republics. To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem, not clear in my mind, that the 1st. condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has it's evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." - Jefferson to James Madison, January 30, 1787[1] ... -quotation

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:24 pm
by WetEV
Another typical day.
One non-police defensive use of firearms.
Thirty three other firearms incidents.
Kid with toy gun shot by cop in Baltimore.

All is "well regulated". The best it could possible be. Couldn't be nicer.

I do have one question, however. If owning military arms is a right, then why no machine guns? No mortars? Wire guided antitank missiles to take out the police armor? Surface to air missiles to deal with the government's Black Helicopters?

Oh, do explain.