WetEV
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:06 pm

WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

WetEV
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:51 pm

WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

WetEV
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:05 pm

WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

WetEV
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:12 pm

Oh yea, everyone should have been armed. That will protect you. oh yea.

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Police ... 44351.html
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:04 am

Hmmm... Seems we might have to go a bit further back. That's fine - we can do that.

Seems to me, Wet, that you chose the phrase "well regulated" because those words can be found in the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. If we're to talk about gun ownership and the right to keep and bear arms, then that's a very appropriate and on-topic starting place. So far so good.

For some reason, however, you then attempt to draw our attention to the acts of criminals. While I don't claim to be a Constitutional expert, I have a couple of hundred hours at least devoted to understanding how our Constitution was crafted and I have yet to find a single indication from any author or any of the Founders that suggests - even in the slightest fashion - that the Constitution or any amendments were devised in order to give criminals a right to use a firearm in any illegal act.

Is there a possibility that you might be erroneously conflating two topics never intended to be such?
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:32 am

News flash... From the period 15 January through 24 April 2016 five firearms did no damage to anyone or anything beyond paper targets.

One .44 cal revolver, a .50 cal Kentucky long rifle, and three semi-automatic rifles in .22, .223/5.56x45, and .308/7.62x51 NATO, plus many cartridges and at least six pounds of smokeless powder , remained safely in storage between drives to a rifle range where paper targets were perforated in a controlled and bloodless manner. Two of the firearms were operated by a 13 year old.

There will be no news at 11, however, as this is unlikely to be sensational enough to sustain ratings and advertising income.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

WetEV
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:50 am

Arms, when the Bill of Rights was written, fired 3 rounds per minute or less.

Arms, redefined today, fire 600 rounds per minute or more.

Original meaning would protect the right to keep and bare arms as existed when the Bill of Rights was written.

New meaning protects the right to new arms, not old.

Is a 2 year old shooting mom a criminal? New definitions again.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:27 am

WetEV wrote:Arms, when the Bill of Rights was written, fired 3 rounds per minute or less.
Yes - and they were the top of the line weapons used by militaries all over the world at the time.
WetEV wrote:Arms, redefined today, fire 600 rounds per minute or more.
Please cite examples of any firearms covered by the 2nd Amendment as limited by the National Firearms Act of of 1934 as amended that fire "600 rounds per minute or more."
WetEV wrote:Original meaning would protect the right to keep and bare arms as existed when the Bill of Rights was written.

New meaning protects the right to new arms, not old.
This is incorrect as 'original meaning' placed no limitations on the arms. The debates on this topic prior to and since the start of this country placed zero limitation on the production date of arms (which includes knives, swords, and bayonets, BTW - which have a rate of fire of somewhat south of zero per any unit of time), or on their rate of fire, or their ability to inflict damage. Recall, if you care to, that privateers had their own ships and cannons.
As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people, duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which shall be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow-citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.
A Pennsylvanian, June 18, 1789, as published in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette
The Origin of the Second Amendment: A documentary history of the Bill of Rights 1787-1792, Edited by David E. Young, Page 671

Since the intent of the right was for both personal defense, defense of one's family and property, as well as the defense of the town/county/state/nation - even if an out of control government turned the standing military on the populace, it was expected that the capability of arms in private hands would match those carried by any standing army. Indeed, the capability of weapons did evolve from the days the first Europeans landed on North America.
WetEV wrote:Is a 2 year old shooting mom a criminal? New definitions again.
It's not a 'new definition' - it appears to simply be a poor attempt to confuse the issue. A negligent discharge is the responsibility of the adult, not the child. The adult erred and karma was rapid.

Is there a specific piece you wish to examine? Or are you in this thread going to play the part of the denier in threads about climate? I ask not to inflame but so that I may devote appropriate time to your queries or statements.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

WetEV
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:08 pm

Factory Smith & Wesson Model 10 double-action revolver back in 1932. Maybe you can't shoot it that fast. So? Most semiauto guns are waiting for the slow human to fire again.

Does the USA have a "well regulated militia", with about 40 shootings of civilians per day? Yes, or No?

Are any regulations acceptable for a "well regulated militia"?

Other than restrictions on Full Auto, which the NRA once campaigned for, of course. Amazing how the NRA has changed.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Gun discussion goes here

Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:16 pm

WetEV wrote:Arms, redefined today, fire 600 rounds per minute or more.
Please cite examples of any firearms covered by the 2nd Amendment as limited by the National Firearms Act of of 1934 as amended that fire "600 rounds per minute or more."
WetEV wrote:Factory Smith & Wesson Model 10 double-action revolver back in 1932. Maybe you can't shoot it that fast. So? Most semiauto guns are waiting for the slow human to fire again.
Seriously? You're complaining about a revolver?



Miculek holds the various world records for rate of fire from a revolver. Please note that using this custom 8-round revolver his rate of fire was 8 rounds in one second. That's a rate of 480 rounds per minute. Want to try again?
WetEV wrote:Does the USA have a "well regulated militia", with about 40 shootings of civilians per day? Yes, or No?

Are any regulations acceptable for a "well regulated militia"?

Other than restrictions on Full Auto, which the NRA once campaigned for, of course. Amazing how the NRA has changed.
You still haven't said what "well regulated" means to you, so nobody here can answer your question. Maybe you can tell us which of the criminals that used guns are protected by the 2A or are the organized or unorganized militia? Maybe you can also tell us why you're only focusing on the 'militia' portion of 2A and skipping the rest.

You are still in Gish gallop mode. Last try - want to pick a starting place and stand still?
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

Return to “Politics & Other Controversial Topics”