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Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:18 pm
by smkettner
Yodrak wrote:Life on earth in general has adapted, for as long as it's existed. But most individual species have not adapted and "we", the human species, which has not been around for "the last million + years", have big worries.
Our ancestors with lower skills and brain power go back at least a million years if you believe evolution.

Honestly I would worry about a sudden drop of 5 degrees more than an increase of the same amount. JMHO.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:42 pm
by DaveEV
Yodrak wrote:The paragraph quoted below causes me to wonder (tongue firmly in cheek) should we be burning as much coal as possible to minimize the use of oil and natural gas and so minimize the production of the largest GHG emission?
No, H2O is short lived in the atmosphere - think days or months before it equalizes.
CO2 on the other hand will be there for decades to a century.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:59 pm
by Fabio
I'd love to take your opinion and believe my children and my grand-children to be will be fine, too bad my rational mind directs me to go with what scientists think:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 092938.htm.

Life on earth will continue to exist, our species, in its current form, not so sure...
smkettner wrote:
Yodrak wrote:Life on earth in general has adapted, for as long as it's existed. But most individual species have not adapted and "we", the human species, which has not been around for "the last million + years", have big worries.
Our ancestors with lower skills and brain power go back at least a million years if you believe evolution.

Honestly I would worry about a sudden drop of 5 degrees more than an increase of the same amount. JMHO.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:25 pm
by smkettner
The article says we over hunted. I am not sure that will continue. And much of the effect was from natural temperature changes.
Kids and grands will be fine. Although 100 generations from now may have some changes to deal with.

I am not saying it won't happen. I just believe we have less control than the scientists imply. Society is not going to revert back 500 years anytime soon.

How much can we really affect the world temperature if every person contributes?
How much have the natural changes in temperatures been?

Here is a quote that baffles me: "The Pleistocene, a period starting about 1.8 million years ago, was a time of glacial comings and goings, with more than 20 cycles of cooling and warming that concluded only about 10,000 years ago with the end of the last ice age. "

How exactly does he know these cycles have concluded? Maybe we are due for another ice age. Maybe the earth continuously warms until some natural event gives a sudden cooling. I think there is a lot left to learn.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:51 pm
by camasleaf
Pipcecil wrote: In the end I see no need to focus just on GHGs or climate change. Just reduce air pollution period. If we stop carbon monoxide, lead, particulate matter, benzyne, and all the other bad junk, CO2 will reduce too. Why focus on something people question when you can get the same clean-up results focusing on stuff we know is bad.
I agree, I have not made up my mind if the climate change is man made or not. But nobody can deny that what comes out the tail pipe is bad for you. If they do, then tell them to run the car in the garage with the door closed, and stay in the car. Or to go buy a house downwind of a coal power plant or refinery.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:51 pm
by Yodrak
OK, I'll agree with you on this - the genus Homo does go back 2+ million years, although the species Sapiens goes back only about 250,000 years.
smkettner wrote:Our ancestors with lower skills and brain power go back at least a million years if you believe evolution.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:06 pm
by Yodrak
I think the serious problems will be underway not long after the "kids and grands", for sure a lot less than 100 generations (~2,500 years for the sake of discussion).

Our fossil fuels will be gone within a few hundred years, but that aside - because affordable renewable alternatives will be found (they will, won't they?) - our breeding habits will do us in within only a few more generations. There may be some hope if we look at some European countries and Japan, where native populations are actually in decline, but the world's social structures are all based on population growth and many ethnic groups continue to breed like rabbits. It's going to be really hard to turn those two things around.
smkettner wrote:Kids and grands will be fine. Although 100 generations from now may have some changes to deal with.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:41 pm
by Fabio
Are you serious?
smkettner wrote:[...] if you believe evolution.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:14 pm
by smkettner
Fabio wrote:Are you serious?
smkettner wrote:[...] if you believe evolution.
There was a question on how long humans had survived the natural fluctuations in temperature as if we were popped on the earth 250,000 years ago.
I believe humans continue to evolve. In 250,000 more years we could be very different.

Re: Climate Change: What Do We Know and When Did We Know It?

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:02 am
by Fabio
If only we knew what would happen in such a case (+5), and what would cause it?
Wait... we actually do. It was caused by a massive amount of CO2 (similar trend as today) and it wasn't pretty:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/ ... unzig-text" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
smkettner wrote:Honestly I would worry about a sudden drop of 5 degrees more than an increase of the same amount. JMHO.