AndyH
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:33 pm

It occurred to me the other day that quite a few of the odder features of contemporary American culture make perfect sense if you assume that everybody knows exactly what’s wrong and what’s coming as our society rushes, pedal to the metal, toward its face-first collision with the brick wall of the future. It’s not that they don’t get it; they get it all too clearly, and they just wish that those of us on the fringes would quit reminding them of the imminent impact, so they can spend whatever time they’ve got left in as close to a state of blissful indifference as they can possibly manage.
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/ ... enial.html
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AndyH
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:10 pm

@Newsweek editors publish hit piece on #wind. Do they even care basic facts wrong?
There is an old adage: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. With an advocacy piece, with heavy over tones of analysis and citations with reams of numbers, it is hard to work through a series of statistics to understand whether the basic material is truthful or contrived and manipulated to support a preconceived notion.
Getting basic facts wrong: an example:

Wind power is approaching five percent of total U.S. electricity generation and is — along with solar power — continuing to grow at double-digit rates year-to-year.

What does Simon write and Newsweek publish?

wind energy—which supplies just 2 percent of U.S. electricity

Umm … no.

Rather than 2 percent of US electricity, according to the Department of Energy’s Energy Information Administration (EIA), wind produced 4.4% in 2014. And, due to capacity growth, that will be higher in 2015.

Have to say that this one basic factual error should have been a clarion call for Newsweek’s editors to send this piece back to the drawing board.
Simon clearly recognizes that there is a thing called pollution. He attacks wind power for supposed inefficiency in reducing carbon emissions because of stand-by power requirements. E.g., this suggests that he understands “carbon” as pollution. Yet, the very real costs associated with not just carbon but all pollution are not part of what he discusses even though he writes that this should be about “full cost” — not just the electricity bill but also the costs of “subsidies and grants”.
Note that the biography left out something that readers might have found illuminating:

Randy Simmons is professor of political economy at Utah State University. … Full disclosure: Randy Simmons receives funding from the U.S. Department of Energy (grant has been completed and there is no current funding) and Strata, a 501 (c)3 non-profit organization.

Yes, Randy Simmons is a Professor. He is the “Charles G. Koch Professor of Political Economy” (about this, see REPORT: Koch Fueling Far Right Academic Centers At Universities Across The Country).

Similarly, the cited sources of material are also marginally identified. Here are two examples where more robust identification might have informed readers

The Institute for Energy Research is identified as a “research non-profit” without mention of its fossil fuel industry (including significant Koch) funding.
Citation of a study from “The Mercatus Center at George Mason University” fails to mention that “The Mercatus Center was founded and is funded by the Koch Family Foundations. According to financial records, the Koch family has contributed more than thirty million dollars to George Mason, much of which has gone to the Mercatus Center”.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/ ... -takeover/

Just one (more) example of how denial plus someone to bankroll the denial equals trouble.
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AndyH
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:33 pm

A Synopsis: Limits to Growth: The 30-Year Update

The signs are everywhere around us:

- Sea level has risen 10–20 cm since 1900. Most non-polar glaciers are retreating, and the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice is decreasing in summer.

- In 1998 more than 45 percent of the globe’s people had to live on incomes averaging $2 a day or less. Meanwhile, the richest one- fifth of the world’s population has 85 percent of the global GNP. And the gap between rich and poor is widening.

- In 2002, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN estimated that 75 percent of the world’s oceanic fisheries were fished at or beyond capacity. The North Atlantic cod fishery, fished sustainably for hundreds of years, has collapsed, and the species may have been pushed to biological extinction.

- The first global assessment of soil loss, based on studies of hundreds of experts, found that 38 percent, or nearly 1.4 billion acres, of currently used agricultural land has been degraded.

- Fifty-four nations experienced declines in per capita GDP for more than a decade during the period 1990–2001.

These are symptoms of a world in overshoot, where we are drawing on the world’s resources faster than they can be restored, and we are releasing wastes and pollutants faster than the Earth can absorb them or render them harmless. They are leading us toward global environmental and economic collapse—but there may still be time to address these problems and soften their impact.

We've been warned before. More than 30 years ago, a book called The Limits to Growth created an international sensation. Commissioned by the Club of Rome, an international group of businessmen, states- men, and scientists, The Limits to Growth was compiled by a team of experts from the U.S. and several foreign countries. Using system dynamics theory and a computer model called “World3,” the book presented and analyzed 12 scenarios that showed different possible patterns—and environmental outcomes—of world development over two centuries from 1900 to 2100.
http://www.donellameadows.org/archives/ ... ar-update/
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AndyH
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:40 pm

http://climatecrocks.com/2015/04/16/spr ... in-flames/
MOSCOW, March 2. The outgoing winter, which ended a couple of days ago according to the calendar, has proved the warmest in the history of weather monitoring in Russia conducted since 1891, the Federal Service for Hydrometeorology and Environmental Monitoring said on Monday.

Over the past winter the average air temperatures in almost all Russian regions were two degrees above the norm as a minimum; on some territories it was even warmer. The past winter proved particularly mild in the Central, Northwest, Siberian and the Far Eastern Federal Districts, where seasonal air temperatures were 4-7 degrees above the norm.

The 2014-2015 winter beat a record earlier set by the 1962 winter by 0.5 degrees. The past winter was one of the four warmest winters in Moscow’s history, ranking fourth after almost equally warm winters registered in 1961, 1989 and 2008.


Wind-whipped grassland fires set by Russian farmers preparing for spring planting have killed at least 23 people, injured more than 900 and left 5,000 homeless, authorities said Tuesday...

“This fire would not have happened if people were not playing with matches,” Puchkov’s deputy, Alexander Chupriyan, said in a statement. “And it wasn't children, but adults.”


One 'benefit' of the effectiveness of climate denial is that it provides the opportunity to experience even deeper layers of heartbreak. Thanks for that, I guess... :cry:
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
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mbender
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:52 pm

I'm not a conspiracy theorist*, but I would not associate with or quote the Club of Rome. I do think that they believe depopulation, in one way or another, to be a good thing which will solve many of "humanity's" problems.

Here are a few (inflammatory) quotes from well-known members that hint at this "agenda":
  • "The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man." -- Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point, 1974
  • "… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.” -- Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind, 1976.
  • "A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells; the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people…. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions." -- Paul Ehrlich in The Population Bomb. Paul Ehrlich is a member of the Club of Rome.
  • "I believe that human overpopulation is the fundamental problem on Earth Today”, “We humans have become a disease, the Humanpox.” -- Dave Foreman, Co-founder of Earth First! and member of the Club of Rome.
  • “World population needs to be decreased by 50%” -- Henry Kissinger, , Former National Security Advisor, Former Secretary of State, chairman of Kissinger Associates, member of the Club of Rome.
  • “We must speak more clearly about sexuality, contraception, about abortion, about values that control population, because the ecological crisis, in short, is the population crisis. Cut the population by 90% and there aren’t enough people left to do a great deal of ecological damage.” -- Mikhail Gorbachev, Former President of the Soviet Union, member of the Club of Rome.
  • “A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.” -- Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor, member of the Club of Rome.
  • "In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it is just as bad not to say it." -- Jacques Cousteau, French naval officer and explorer. Member of the Club of Rome.
  • "If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels." -- Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, member of the Club of Rome.
* In the conventional sense of the phrase. OTOH, I am a conspiracy theorist in the Margaret Mead sense! :)
AndyH wrote:
A Synopsis: Limits to Growth: The 30-Year Update

The signs are everywhere around us:

- Sea level has risen 10–20 cm since 1900. Most non-polar glaciers are retreating, and the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice is decreasing in summer.

[...]

We've been warned before. More than 30 years ago, a book called The Limits to Growth created an international sensation. Commissioned by the Club of Rome, an international group of businessmen, states- men, and scientists, The Limits to Growth was compiled by a team of experts from the U.S. and several foreign countries. Using system dynamics theory and a computer model called “World3,” the book presented and analyzed 12 scenarios that showed different possible patterns—and environmental outcomes—of world development over two centuries from 1900 to 2100.
http://www.donellameadows.org/archives/ ... ar-update/
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

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AndyH
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:57 pm

I can't speak for or against the Club of Rome or their goals. It does appear that we're hovering near the upper part of an oil-fed population overshoot, though. It's too late to get out pain-free, but I think we can still choose what part of our anatomy we'll land on when we slide down the super-fossil-fuel-water-slide. ;)

I'm still holding out for a Margaret Mead-esque uprising, but if that antivenom doesn't get here in time, I have no doubt that the rest of the planet's systems will re-balance things once the virus has run it's course.


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mbender
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:11 pm

^^^^ Oh, I do like Hugo Weaving. More for his role in V for Vendetta, though. ;-)
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

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AndyH
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:42 pm

mbender wrote:^^^^ Oh, I do like Hugo Weaving. More for his role in V for Vendetta, though. ;-)
LOL Great movie! Remember, remember...

V and Evie...and 1812...and that takes me directly to:

Image

:lol:

WetEV
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:30 am

mbender wrote:I'm not a conspiracy theorist*, but I would not associate with or quote the Club of Rome. I do think that they believe depopulation, in one way or another, to be a good thing which will solve many of "humanity's" problems.
A population limit of some sort is a requirement. Even if we solve all possible technical problems, we would end up with a ball of people with the outside of the ball expanding at nearly the speed of light. Hardly Nirvana, to say the least. Cancer is inflammatory you say, but what other word would describe such a future?

If you reject that future, or agree that unlimited creation of mass-energy without making a black hole isn't possible, or desirable even if possible, then we agree that a population limit must exist.

What the population limit is, and how the population limit is enforced are clearly open questions.
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dhanson865
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Re: Denial...was CC- What do we know, when did we know it?

Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:09 am

AndyH wrote:I can't speak for or against the Club of Rome or their goals. It does appear that we're hovering near the upper part of an oil-fed population overshoot, though. It's too late to get out pain-free, but I think we can still choose what part of our anatomy we'll land on when we slide down the super-fossil-fuel-water-slide. ;)
Back when gas was $5.00 in my hometown and it didn't look like it would drop below $4 any time soon I would have back you up on that sentiment.

But since then not only has gas dropped in price we also have:

lots more solar power
Tesla (and other viable EVs)

I personally could do all my driving on solar power alone. I don't need gas to make it to work or to play or to get goods.

Now I know that UPS/FEDEX/USPS aren't as able to get off the hydrocarbons on a moments notice but I see a path forward and think the economy can adjust without failing completely.

I would like to see population decline at a mild rate instead of in some sort of calamity but I can't predict that one and won't try to control it.
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