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LTLFTcomposite
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Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:57 pm

With cabinet appointments etc too much going on and the discussion became fragmented.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000576331

Did anyone hear if there was any specific discussion between EM and DT yesterday at the tech summit? Trump said pick up the phone if they need anything... maybe Elon should ask him to bitch slap the NADA for starters.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-m ... 2016-12-14

Could he at least send out a tweet that GM needs to adopt UMC and help build out SCN :lol:

Bigly!
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:59 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12 ... lling.html
“This is exactly the time we need to start developing the area,” Nick Loris, an energy expert at the Washington D.C.-based conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation, told FoxNews.com. “It will take more of a hurdle given what Obama has done, but it can be undone.”
LTL
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WetEV
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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:15 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12 ... lling.html
“This is exactly the time we need to start developing the area,” Nick Loris, an energy expert at the Washington D.C.-based conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation, told FoxNews.com. “It will take more of a hurdle given what Obama has done, but it can be undone.”
Sure. Drill the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge for the last large conventional oil field in the USA. After that, then what? At the 7.7 billion barrel number, that is about four months and a few days of supply for the world.

So drill the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge, and four months and a few days later hold hearings on where to drill next. Need a hint? There isn't a place like this left to drill in the USA. Or, sure, small fields and various unconventional oil.

Big oil fields mean cheap oil. Small oil fields mean more expensive oil. Drilling and fraking is more expensive. Tar sands are more expensive. Oil shales are even more expensive. Coal to liquids? Really need to ask? More expensive. Willing to pay a lot, there is a huge amount of coal. Dirty, expensive, but can still run boring old cars...

Sure. Drill the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge in the rapidly warming Arctic. Better design everything need to drill and extract oil so that it can survive melting permafrost. The methane craters. Better make provisions for rapid shoreline erosion, as the increasingly ice free Arctic Ocean pounds the shore during the unfrozen winters to come.

Sure. Drill the last large oil field. Go out with a bang!

Fossil fuels need to end. And they will. One way or another.
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Stoaty
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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:57 pm

Wreck baby wreck! Pathetic. :evil:
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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:37 pm

I'm not sure I've seen this argument before, but it occurs to me that it will take more energy, over the next few decades, to compensate for worsening weather from climate change than can be extracted from the NWR oil fields. Of course energy economics has never fully taken into account factors like this. It's essentially a Big Debt passed to the next generation.
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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:22 am

Wet EV, I think like you also...

I cant see the benefit of drilling OUR land for a temporary benefit... Its like the Heroin addict saying, "I'll spend all my money for just one more score.." I just cant believe that the whole world is not talking seriously about the issue of Peak Oil, and Hubbert's Peak.. We know that consumption is constantly growing, and supplies are constantly decreasing.

What,... are the governments trying not to scare us about the worldwide petroleum issue by saying, "Drive your SUV on!" Man, that is like the band playing on the deck of the Titanic...

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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:46 am

Not to go all into crazy territory, but given the coming automation of so much in the coming 20 years, I wonder what jobs will be available for people to need to drive to?
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf SL, traded it in and now I'm a very happy Tesla Model 3 owner.

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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:03 am

powersurge wrote:issue of Peak Oil, and Hubbert's Peak..
Peak Oil has been somewhat over-hyped. Yes, we are probably beyond the peak production of conventional oil. But unconventional oil can be extracted from shales, tar sands and oil shales, and there is a lot more unconventional oil than there was conventional oil. Sure, cost is two to four or more times that of conventional oil. This is why I wouldn't expect oil to sell below $45 for any extended period of time, baring a complete economic collapse. It also puts a cap on how high the oil price can go for any extended period of time. And beyond that is the coal => liquids, a complex bit of chemistry, to convert 2 tonnes of coal into 1 tonne of liquid fuels and a tonne of CO2, as the Nazi's did during WW2. Coal to liquids is roughly comparable with $160 oil, but the end point isn't oil, but rather gasoline or diesel directly.

As the price rises, the question of isn't there a better way to do it will keep coming up. Coal -> electric -> electric cars is a whole lot cheaper and less polluting than coal -> liquids -> boring old ICE cars.

As the climate warms, the question of should we keep burning increasing amounts of carbon fossil fuels will keep coming up.
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WetEV
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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:05 am

Durandal wrote:Not to go all into crazy territory, but given the coming automation of so much in the coming 20 years, I wonder what jobs will be available for people to need to drive to?
Trump doesn't recognize that automation will change the way people work. So it doesn't exist, for the purposes of the Trump topic.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Trump EV/alternative energy/climate/environmental policy bashing and discussion

Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:03 pm

Durandal wrote:Not to go all into crazy territory, but given the coming automation of so much in the coming 20 years, I wonder what jobs will be available for people to need to drive to?
Jobs will all fall into a few basic categories:
Software development and support
Media
Construction and trades
Fixing broken IoT gadgets
Health care
Retail (mostly picking up drones that conked out)
LTL
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