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TonyWilliams
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:48 pm

epirali wrote:All of which doesn't even register compared to just basic accidents with fuel/coal plants.
Listen, two of the most advanced countries of the world, after having had MAJOR nuclear accidents, are moving away from nuclear in a big way. At least you can acknowledge that your views are counter to modern trends of advanced civilizations, and that there are very sound reasons for those decisions. Perhaps you can sell you concept to China... I think they would bite on anything to clean up those choking cities!

I was actually a bit of a nuke supporter until 2011. I don't think humans should rely on a basic commodity like electricity on a source with such damaging side effects, particularly when there are cost effective alternatives.

We do not have enough wind/sun available 24/7 to power the planet. There are places where this is true, but places like Germany, when they can have excess of wind power, either need to shut the turbines down or use storage. And they are starting to lean towards hydrogen as a better storage medium than just batteries to store/use the power later.

As I've stated many, many times (and virtually EVERY SINGLE POSTER ON THIS THREAD), hydrogen appears to be a great grid level solution for energy storage today, and perhaps into the future.

I don't need to disagree with your comments concerning that there isn't "enough wind/sun"... that's just patently wrong. We haven't harnessed that power... yet.

Batteries are good for local storage. Hydrogen can store more/denser and can be transported. I'll say again because you don't want to just ignore me: its not an and/or solution. Its not nuclear vs wind. Its not battery vs fuel cell. That is just irrational thinking.

Holy crap, you have to be Andy, because this is the kinds of non-stop insults he used to sway us to hydrogen cars. We're "irrational".

Anyhoo, I don't think you have your basic facts straight. Why, exactly, do batteries need to be "local storage"? That doesn't even make sense. The grid could pull battery power from a site in Utah and deliver it to California... today.

Listen, I'm sure you're well meaning. I think the "real" Andy was, too. But, honestly, a fossil fuel future is not where this world is going if we intend to still be around in 1000 years. Clearly, you think otherwise.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:12 pm

epirali wrote:I am for immediate reduction of CO2s anyway we can, and transportation is an easy target in some ways.

Good for you. I'll keep "hindering" that movement (as you troll) by promoting EVs. You promote hybrids (on an EV forum). Everybody wins!

The nuke thing, sorry, but I expect that for better or worse, you're likely on the wrong side of history on that one.

And btw I have no idea who Andy is, but it is possible that there are many people out there who share my opinions!

Well, on this forum, not really. It really isn't fair of me to call you Andy, in retrospect, as he earned his status the old fashioned way; through his own hard work!

He would remind us, frequently, how the world was at stake every time we countered his H2 "facts", as if only hydrogen could save us, and we were all delusional with EVs. You can see how your comments fit that mold, eh?

He was just a continual asshole about it. So, I suspect that I'm addressing you much like I would address Andy. Perhaps I need to let you earn his lofty position the same way that he did?

epirali
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:10 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
epirali wrote:I am for immediate reduction of CO2s anyway we can, and transportation is an easy target in some ways.

Good for you. I'll keep "hindering" that movement (as you troll) by promoting EVs. You promote hybrids (on an EV forum). Everybody wins!

The nuke thing, sorry, but I expect that for better or worse, you're likely on the wrong side of history on that one.

And btw I have no idea who Andy is, but it is possible that there are many people out there who share my opinions!

Well, on this forum, not really. It really isn't fair of me to call you Andy, in retrospect, as he earned his status the old fashioned way; through his own hard work!

He would remind us, frequently, how the world was at stake every time we countered his H2 "facts", as if only hydrogen could save us, and we were all delusional with EVs. You can see how your comments fit that mold, eh?

He was just a continual asshole about it. So, I suspect that I'm addressing you much like I would address Andy. Perhaps I need to let you earn his lofty position the same way that he did?
I don't think I fit that description, if you could examine your own rather offensive posts you may find you fit the mold better than I do.

I don't think facts have much room in your world view, only insults. And honestly I have nothing personal about your position. You actually strike me as sincerely earnest in your beliefs. I respect that, too many people seem to not care much about anything. I still strongly disagree with you. And if I find myself on the wrong side of history that probably means fool headed sincerity kept us from actually fixing our problems. But then again that has been the pattern of recent human history. We, specially in the U.S., seem to have abandoned reason and facts in our policy decisions and have adopted "beliefs." In that sense I am on the wrong side of history.

GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:49 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
epirali wrote:Can't you just add me to an ignore list so you don't have to suffer through my opinions?
Sorry, but, I save the ignore list for people way more special than you... you haven't made the cut! You're just a common troll, and we have lots of those. My time isn't consumed with managing other folk's trolling ability.

If this were a political party site, and you were on the "wrong" side of the political issues, you'd be a troll there, too. Don't forget to make that Fossil Fuel God shrine!

With us EV advocates actually HINDERING the adoption of EVs (according to you), I'm going to build a stack of used AA batteries into a shrine and see if I can get my mojo back.


:ugeek:
Calling someone a troll because they disagree with the prevailing view on a site strikes me as crossing the line of acceptable behavior (but then, having been subjected to it myself here, I would think that way) - this is not supposed to be an echo chamber. epirali has been nothing but polite to you, so why do you resort to ad hominem attacks?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

lorenfb
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:22 pm

GRA wrote:

Calling someone a troll because they disagree with the prevailing view on a site strikes me as crossing the line of acceptable behavior (but then, having been subjected to it myself here, I would think that way) - this is not supposed to be an echo chamber. epirali has been nothing but polite to you, so why do you resort to ad hominem attacks?
Yes, so true! We know his nature when facts threaten.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:25 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
GRA wrote:

Calling someone a troll because they disagree with the prevailing view on a site strikes me as crossing the line of acceptable behavior (but then, having been subjected to it myself here, I would think that way) - this is not supposed to be an echo chamber. epirali has been nothing but polite to you, so why do you resort to ad hominem attacks?
Yes, so true! We know his nature when facts threaten.
Yawn. Isn't there some bad news at Tesla to report (hey, where that vaporware Model X and Model 3?)?
Having a problem addressing the issues raised about Tesla, Tony?

Some who post on internet forums when they can't address the message
resort to attacking the messenger, as is usually the case with those with
an ego. Surely that's not the case on this thread, right?

But after personally meeting Tony at one of the Leaf gatherings here in SoCal,
one usually concludes that his ego is foremost in his interactions with the
gatherings' attendees, which is the main reason for my not having attended
subsequent gatherings. As is the case for many with an ego, being objective
and rational take a second place to one's ego.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

Zythryn
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:48 pm

lorenfb wrote:...

Some who post on internet forums when they can't address the message
resort to attacking the messenger, as is usually the case with those with
an ego. Surely that's not the case on this thread, right?

But after personally meeting Tony at one of the Leaf gatherings here in SoCal,
one usually concludes that his ego is foremost in his interactions with the
gatherings' attendees, which is the main reason for my not having attended
subsequent gatherings. As is the case for many with an ego, being objective
and rational take a second place to one's ego.
So let me get this straight.
You imply Tony can't address a point you raised and thus, resorted to attacking the messenger.
You then immediately follow this with personal attacks on Tony??

So by your logic, your ego is bigger than Tony's?

Just trying to draw the rational conclusion ;)
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
http://www.netzeromn.com

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:20 pm

lorenfb wrote: Having a problem addressing the issues raised about Tesla, Tony?

Some who post on internet forums when they can't address the message
resort to attacking the messenger, as is usually the case with those with
an ego. Surely that's not the case on this thread, right?

But after personally meeting Tony at one of the Leaf gatherings here in SoCal,
one usually concludes that his ego is foremost in his interactions with the
gatherings' attendees, which is the main reason for my not having attended
subsequent gatherings. As is the case for many with an ego, being objective
and rational take a second place to one's ego.
Listen, this is straight up personal attack. Reported to have removed.

Edit: If you happen to EVER be at any event that I'm attending at any point in the future, please identify yourself and I'll make it a point to not interact with you in any way. Promise.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:50 pm

Zythryn wrote: So let me get this straight.
You imply Tony can't address a point you raised and thus, resorted to attacking the messenger.
You then immediately follow this with personal attacks on Tony??

So by your logic, your ego is bigger than Tony's?

Just trying to draw the rational conclusion ;)
I've been on forums for about 25 years. There is ALWAYS a "lorenfb", or "OrientExpress", or some real class act like that.

Since I've been a moderator on one or more forums during many of those years, things rarely get out of control. On any forum that I moderate, I go back through the posts to the "root issue" and delete / amend everything that doesn't meet "terms of agreement".

The absolute WORST forum was a professional pilot forum, by far. I deleted / edited / banned people EVERY DAY. On one of the sister forums to this, at MyRav4EV, I might ban somebody once a year (except for one post advertisements, which are regular).

I've gotten some real sweetheart PMs from guys like this, too. I find that the PM is usually the finally grand display before they're banned, and the IP address blocked.

Anyway, this forum is real light duty on the difficult posters, but I find that with no moderator control on my behalf, I personally have no direct control of the situation. It plays out here however the moderators allow.

I don't personally know "lorenfb", but he sounds like a real peach. It happens, even in the mild mannered world of EVs.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lorenfb
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:42 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Zythryn wrote: So let me get this straight.
You imply Tony can't address a point you raised and thus, resorted to attacking the messenger.
You then immediately follow this with personal attacks on Tony??

So by your logic, your ego is bigger than Tony's?

Just trying to draw the rational conclusion ;)
I've been on forums for about 25 years. There is ALWAYS a "lorenfb", or "OrientExpress", or some real class act like that.

Since I've been a moderator on one or more forums during many of those years, things rarely get out of control. On any forum that I moderate, I go back through the posts to the "root issue" and delete / amend everything that doesn't meet "terms of agreement".

The absolute WORST forum was a professional pilot forum, by far. I deleted / edited / banned people EVERY DAY. On one of the sister forums to this, at MyRav4EV, I might ban somebody once a year (except for one post advertisements, which are regular).

I've gotten some real sweetheart PMs from guys like this, too. I find that the PM is usually the finally grand display before they're banned, and the IP address blocked.

Anyway, this forum is real light duty on the difficult posters, but I find that with no moderator control on my behalf, I personally have no direct control of the situation. It plays out here however the moderators allow.

I don't personally know "lorenfb", but he sounds like a real peach. It happens, even in the mild mannered world of EVs.
Really sorry to have offended you so significantly. We all have offending egos, including me, but some
more than others and that's human nature. Indicating that one has a greater manifesting ego than others
hardly compares with some of the offensive language posted in this thread by some.

If I ever again decide to attend a Leaf gathering with my future FCEV, I'll provide my personal apology.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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