kubel
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:02 am

Nubo wrote:We're Number One!!

Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2% ... al_complex" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another symptom of the state. Victimless crimes account for 86% of the federal prison population.
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AndyH
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:06 am



There's a bit of info in the first half, but skip to 30 minutes in for a race/justice panel.
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:52 am

Nubo wrote:Here you can see the effect of our glorious "War On Drugs", which is really the "War On People We Don't Like".
Yes, and what a waste of resources (both economic and human).
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:21 am

Nubo wrote:We're Number One!Image
The US is number one amongst western countries in terms of its black:white ratio too. For western countries, how close are these numbers to being in approximate proportion to their relative black populations?

AndyH
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:40 pm

Local radio station continues live-stream from Ferguson

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035 ... ts/3271930

State of emergency/curfew declared by governor. Anonymous disables websites in response. Non-violent civil disobedience training took place earlier in the day. Marches scheduled across USA. Ferguson receives advice from Gaza on living with tear gas.
https://twitter.com/OpFerguson

More petitions activated.

https://www.aclu.org/secure/communities ... ation_auto
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... a/8tlS5czf
http://act.credoaction.com/sign/ferguson
Last edited by AndyH on Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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donald
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:15 pm

I advocated police body cameras in my country some years back. Makes no sense not to do it. I heard one US police force instigated audio recordings. At least that tells half the story. Apparently, complaints against police in that police force dropped through the floor! Not really that surprising an effect on the behaviour of police.

These things will protect police as well as public. But I think it should be recorded for use in investigations involving specific agencies, and release to the public will be a rarity. The reason is not to perpetuate secrecy, but I can easily imagine scenarios in which video material needs to be understood in the context of operational techniques and procedures, which should not be readily disclosed in the public forum for operational reasons.

Additional to body cameras should be cameras mounted with firearms, which will automatically record where it's pointing, after the firearm is unracked/unholstered.

In respect of the discussion above - 'non-enforceable' rights are not really rights - a sad day perhaps but maybe the time has come to question the ongoing validity of the constitutional principle to bear arms as a means to suppress a government that is over-reaching itself (as was the constitutional intent to bearing arms). I do not thing American forefathers foresaw the array of technology that would reduce the power of a free man bearing arms to have much of an effect. Man-with-gun was a fairer fight with Government-solider-with-gun in the 18th century! Nowadays there has to be an act of faith that modern Governments will do the right thing. I realise that may well be quite some stretch for many ( :? ) but unless the US moves towards limiting firearms in civilised society then it will always court such situations, because in a society where a person being arrested has a right to be holding a firearm, it puts the person performing the arrest in fundamentally mortal danger and you cannot really blame someone for reacting with mortal fear if they have been put into that situation.

Basically, I'm blaming your constitution for asking armed police to intervene with members of the public who have a right to bear arms. It's a Very Bad scenario that will always risk this sort of outcome.

AndyH
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:16 pm

Donald,

I think it's important to remember that the US Constitution doesn't 'grant' rights - it limits the government from restricting rights that were and continue to be deemed to be self-evident.

On the overall rights picture and action of federal, state, or local officials...they work for us and that puts the responsibility on us to make sure we know our rights, their rights, and make sure that we raise our voices if things get out of balance. It doesn't matter if it's a fist, thigh bone, slingshot, or .50 cal machine gun - restraint starts in the human heart and mind and so does freedom. Many gave their lives in the past, and many continue to give their lives today. The message that echoes over time is that when one is knocked down, five more rise to take their place.

http://www.ted.com/talks/eric_liu_why_o ... r#t-938096



"Fun fact"... It's a violation of the Geneva Convention/Protol and international law to use teargas in combat as it's a chemical weapon.
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apvbguy
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:24 pm

now in charge of policing in ferguson
Image
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dhanson865
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:13 pm

AndyH wrote: "Fun fact"... It's a violation of the Geneva Convention/Protol and international law to use teargas in combat as it's a chemical weapon.
Depends who you ask apparently. I found this when I google to see if that was true.

http://www.state.gov/t/isn/4784.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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kubel
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Re: Ferguson Police Use Tear Gas on Media

Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:50 pm

AndyH wrote:
"Fun fact"... It's a violation of the Geneva Convention/Protol and international law to use teargas in combat as it's a chemical weapon.
Also in The Hague Convention as a prohibited weapon... which I believe predates Geneva and is still in effect.
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