iPlug
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:45 pm

Randy wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:14 am
Sagebrush,
It's no problem to add a storage battery. I don't have one yet, but am thinking about it.

The thing that many people may not realize is that the NEM rules in California are based on renewable energy being the source. It gets a little more complicated with batteries...You're not supposed to export non-renewable energy back to the grid and get paid for it...

Here's a web page that explains how it works here in San Diego...

https://www.sdge.com/residential/solar/ ... gy-storage
The CA stuff would not be and issue for Sagebrush as he lives in another state.

A good place to start to get information about NEM rules, Federal Investment Tax Credit (ITC), State and Local Energy Incentives, and California's SGIP Program:

https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/po ... incentives
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

smkettner
Posts: 7380
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Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:04 pm

ybitz wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:23 am
smkettner wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:10 am
Your solar installer should be able to sort this out or at least connect the evse to the main house meter.
My installer (SolarMax) wouldn't help; they said from the onset they don't handle that. Other solar contractors I talked to during the quoting process said the same. Apparently having two meters is different/weird enough that they don't want to deal with it.
I find it hard to believe a solar installer will not connect an evse.
Any electrician will do it. Yes SDGE would need to come and collect their meter.
Solar City did my install and offered to take care of everything and anything inside to home too.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:02 pm

@iplug is right -- CA does not personally affect me, although the policies utilities like SDG&E force on consumers certainly may arrive some day.

Regarding SDG&E my thought was the following:

Battery to cover evening and early morning use. It gets cycled up to twice a day: once from PV during the day for evening use, and once at night from the grid for early AM use.
PV to cover sunlight hours and to charge the battery for evening consumption
Nightime grid use for the battery charging and and EV charging
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:25 pm

Sorry for contributing to thread drift a bit here, but would also like some day to add home batteries with cycling use in a similar fashion.

At the moment, home batteries still seem to be relatively high hanging fruit, mostly due to initial capital/install cost and dismal utility reimbursement rates beyond net zero metering. Utilities will always be able to do this substantially cheaper than a home resident, though may not pass that savings on to the customer. Shocking, right? :D

Even if they did, there is still a potential value to being able to decouple from the grid, such as during natural disasters when power could be out for hours to days to weeks. Right now, all of our solar is useless in a power outage as it has auto shut-off to protect line workers on the grid.

There could also be a bit of TOU arbitrage fun in the future if/when advanced TOU plans and metering sufficiently advance to allow electricity to be bought and sold by the second.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

ybitz
Posts: 87
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Leaf Number: 303691
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:05 pm

iPlug wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:25 pm
...There could also be a bit of TOU arbitrage fun in the future...
doesn't work in CA per Randy, right, since you can't get paid for exporting to the grid from battery?
2011 SL-e
2015 SV with QC

iPlug
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:32 pm

ybitz wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:05 pm
doesn't work in CA per Randy, right, since you can't get paid for exporting to the grid from battery?
Not legally. But even if one found a way to still do this, it's a pretty bad idea (economically). PG&E for example, California's largest utility, only pays to the resident ~$0.02-0.03/kWh for electricity net generation.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:54 pm

ybitz wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:05 pm
iPlug wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:25 pm
...There could also be a bit of TOU arbitrage fun in the future...
doesn't work in CA per Randy, right, since you can't get paid for exporting to the grid from battery?
The utility does not want to buy its own dogfood back at a higher rate than it charged, but nothing prevents you from being credited peak rates for PV generation, and then using that credit for non-peak kWh at a lower rate.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:56 pm

iPlug wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:32 pm
ybitz wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:05 pm
doesn't work in CA per Randy, right, since you can't get paid for exporting to the grid from battery?
Not legally. But even if one found a way to still do this, it's a pretty bad idea (economically). PG&E for example, California's largest utility, only pays to the resident ~$0.02-0.03/kWh for electricity net generation.
The idea would be to send e.g. a kWh of PV generation to the grid during peak and then collect ~ 2 or 3 kWh at night from the grid
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:24 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:56 pm
The idea would be to send e.g. a kWh of PV generation to the grid during peak and then collect ~ 2 or 3 kWh at night from the grid
Would imagine on a hot summer day, after the sun went down, residential AC units still running hard, the utility would likely be interested to buy residential battery stored electricity above wholesale rates, maybe at something like $0.10-20/kWh (or whatever spot price is at the moment) then turn around and sell it to ones neighbor at $0.467/kWh (current max rate on my plan). :lol:
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

User avatar
Randy
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:29 pm
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: SDGE EV meter removal

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:19 pm

iPlug wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:32 pm
ybitz wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:05 pm
doesn't work in CA per Randy, right, since you can't get paid for exporting to the grid from battery?
Not legally. But even if one found a way to still do this, it's a pretty bad idea (economically). PG&E for example, California's largest utility, only pays to the resident ~$0.02-0.03/kWh for electricity net generation.
iPlug,
I can't speak for PG&E, but down here in San Diego you get full retail pricing credit for exported solar energy, based on the pricing plan you're on and at the time of export (if you're on a TOU rate). This policy is good up to the point where your annual generation equals your annual consumption. If you generate above that amount, during your annual true-up you will get the wholesale energy price for all energy ABOVE your annual consumption. So for the bulk of most people's generation, you're getting full retail pricing credit.

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