Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

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RegGuheert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
6,419
Location
Northern VA
As the prices have come down, the financial incentive for installing PV on your roof has become more-and-more compelling. Yet many people still resist. Some have very good reasons not to install PV such as "I can't", or "I'm moving next month". But I've heard some real doozies. Here are a few of the "best":

"Why would my utility want to buy electricity from me? They don't want to buy electricity from me."

"I don't spend very much on electricity each month, so it doesn't make sense to install PV."

"I know that you have had some inverters in your system die, so it doesn't make sense for me to install PV."

"I don't have the money to purchase a PV system." (This is a valid reason, but it is a bit like being too sick to go to the doctor. There are ways to address it.)
 
"I'm retiring and can't afford it." - From a region where the payments on a 7-year PV loan would have been less (with incentives) than the utility bill.
 
Lothsahn said:
"I'm retiring and can't afford it." - From a region where the payments on a 7-year PV loan would have been less (with incentives) than the utility bill.
If only I had a dollar for every time I heard that one.
 
Not all reasons are dumb. We have a slate roof and a narrow yard. I tried to get utility solar installed and was refused by several companies. My housemate, who co-owns the house, wouldn't spring for an array in the yard even if it would fit. And fortunately, the hydro plant (on an old dam) that supplies our power, is 3/4 of a mile away. So we don't have solar other than our solar hot air panel.
 
Here's mine....I haven't gotten around to it yet. I need to remove 2 gables on the roof and that has to wait for me to finish the bathroom remodel. Oh...and I'm updating the breaker box before doing the solar install.

But - I am committed to getting as many panels as our local utility will allow before the end of 2019. I'm even thinking of buying a new Leaf so that I can claim the additional power consumption. Right now I'll be limited to a 3-4 kW system but I'm pretty sure the roof can handle more than that.
 
goldbrick said:
Here's mine....I haven't gotten around to it yet.
What's wrong with that?! It's one of my favorite excuses!
goldbrick said:
I need to remove 2 gables on the roof and that has to wait for me to finish the bathroom remodel.
The roof where I installed my PV panels has a fake gable. I left it there because I was unwilling to tackle the project and because it looks kinda purdy. But it takes the space of about 5 PV panels that could have been up there producing for the past 8 years. :x
 
LeftieBiker said:
Not all reasons are dumb.

This. I looked into solar last year when the roof was re-done, and the payoff (even at CA electricity rates) would take over 10 years. If I planned to live here a long time I would do it, but I'm likely only going to stay another 5, or less. And I'm uncertain how much of my investment will be reflected in the selling price.
 
RegGuheert said:
The roof where I installed my PV panels has a fake gable. I left it there because I was unwilling to tackle the project and because it looks kinda purdy. But it takes the space of about 5 PV panels that could have been up there producing for the past 8 years. :x

Mine are really fugly and the soffit is rotting because of them. They don't take up a lot of space but it will be much easier to remove them before installing the panels than the other way around.

BTW, I've learned a lot from your posts here. Thanks for the info. I'm still undecided whether to use micro-inverters or power-optimizers. The roof is only so big and I think when it's full I could get by with 1 string inverter so that is still an option I'm considering.
 
goldbrick said:
RegGuheert said:
The roof where I installed my PV panels has a fake gable. I left it there because I was unwilling to tackle the project and because it looks kinda purdy. But it takes the space of about 5 PV panels that could have been up there producing for the past 8 years.

Mine are really fugly and the soffit is rotting because of them. They don't take up a lot of space but it will be much easier to remove them before installing the panels rather than the other way around.

BTW, I've learned a lot from your posts here. Thanks for the info. I'm still undecided whether to use micro-inverters or power-optimizers. The roof is only so big and I think when it's full I could get by with 1 string inverter so that is still an option I'm considering.
 
goldbrick said:
BTW, I've learned a lot from your posts here. Thanks for the info.
You're welcome!
goldbrick said:
BI'm still undecided whether to use micro-inverters or power-optimizers. The roof is only so big and I think when it's full I could get by with 1 string inverter so that is still an option I'm considering.
They are both good options, IMO. A good friend of mine just chose to install the PowerEdge system for his house over the objections of his installer who was pushing microinverters, partly because of my recommendations. While he didn't purchase the PowerEdge central inverter that works with a battery, he wanted to have the option to switch to one of those later in case batteries became affordable. Enphase is claiming they are developing an off-grid microinverter-based approach, but I get the impression they are still about 18 months out (and no one seems to know what the theory of operation, cost, etc. are for their new stuff).
 
goldbrick said:
BTW, I've learned a lot from your posts here. Thanks for the info. I'm still undecided whether to use micro-inverters or power-optimizers. The roof is only so big and I think when it's full I could get by with 1 string inverter so that is still an option I'm considering.

I just went through the micro vs power optimizers for my home. I just installed StorEdge (battery compatible) Inverters with my system with Power optimizers. This should make it easier to plug on a battery in the future when I want to, although I'll likely still have to run a subpanel when I go to do that.

If you're not planning to do batteries anytime soon, go with micro inverters. They have a longer warranty than string inverters and should have a lower cost of ownership. Also, they make wiring simpler and if one fails, you only lose the output of one panel, not a whole string. Finally, for whatever reason, codes are way more restrictive on HV DC than AC (you'd think that'd be backwards), so you're limited on where and how you can conduit the DC cabling.

Unless you have specific needs, go Micro. I've heard good things about Enphase and APS, although APS apparently has some issues with their monitoring software.
 
RegGuheert said:
A good friend of mine just chose to install the PowerEdge system for his house over the objections of his installer who was pushing microinverters, partly because of my recommendations. While he didn't purchase the PowerEdge central inverter that works with a battery, he wanted to have the option to switch to one of those later in case batteries became affordable.

This is exactly why I did what I did. That said, I believe the powerwall and Sonnen battery both support AC coupled battery backup, including with Micro Inverters. Sonnen batteries are very expensive, though.
 
Lothsahn said:
If you're not planning to do batteries anytime soon, go with micro inverters. They have a longer warranty than string inverters and should have a lower cost of ownership. Also, they make wiring simpler and if one fails, you only lose the output of one panel, not a whole string. Finally, for whatever reason, codes are way more restrictive on HV DC than AC (you'd think that'd be backwards), so you're limited on where and how you can conduit the DC cabling.

I have no plans to go with batteries anytime soon and my breaker box is on the North side of the house so the wire routing seems like the biggest potential issue with the installation. I may be adding more panels later as well and now that I think of it, adding more AC wires seems much easier than adding more DC wires. I guess I'll ask the local inspector about the code requirements but the micro inverters are starting to sound better.
 
Lothsahn said:
Finally, for whatever reason, codes are way more restrictive on HV DC than AC (you'd think that'd be backwards), so you're limited on where and how you can conduit the DC cabling.
Simply put, DC is much more dangerous than AC, both in terms of a shock hazard and as a fire hazard. SolarEdge has done a lot to make it safe in their system, but the regulations had already been put in place due to issue with prior technologies.
goldbrick said:
I have no plans to go with batteries anytime soon and my breaker box is on the North side of the house so the wire routing seems like the biggest potential issue with the installation. I may be adding more panels later as well and now that I think of it, adding more AC wires seems much easier than adding more DC wires. I guess I'll ask the local inspector about the code requirements but the micro inverters are starting to sound better.
I agree that microinverters are the better choice in your case.
 
RegGuheert said:
Simply put, DC is much more dangerous than AC, both in terms of a shock hazard and as a fire hazard. SolarEdge has done a lot to make it safe in their system, but the regulations had already been put in place due to issue with prior technologies.

Safety: Can you explain why this is? If you do a quick google search DC vs AC safety, you'll get a bunch of answers saying DC is safer.
https://www.brighthubengineering.com/power-plants/89792-ac-and-dc-shock-comparison/
https://www.electronicproducts.com/Power_Products/AC_DC_Power_Supplies/Which_is_more_dangerous_to_the_human_body_AC_or_DC_current_and_voltage.aspx

Fire Hazard: I would expect heat to be current*resistance... roughly proportional to the power flowing through them, given equivalent sized cables. Why is DC solar more likely to catch fire, or be a hazard during a fire?

I tried to find both answers on my own, but haven't been able to do so.
 
Reliability aside, I would avoid micro-inverters due to the high i^2 losses. I personally also find the parallel wiring scheme to more difficult to work with and my impression from a few projects is that a lot more cabling is used.
 
goldbrick said:
I'm even thinking of buying a new Leaf so that I can claim the additional power consumption. Right now I'll be limited to a 3-4 kW system but I'm pretty sure the roof can handle more than that.

That can be a challenge. I went through the same thing trying to convince the utility that I had the additional consumption in the pipeline, in that I had to send them a copy of my LEAF reservation info.

I ended up with 27 panels for 6.2kW worth, all south facing on one roof face (which also required a variance from the fire department over fire ventilation access).
 
Lothsahn said:
Fire Hazard: I would expect heat to be current*resistance... roughly proportional to the power flowing through them, given equivalent sized cables. Why is DC solar more likely to catch fire, or be a hazard during a fire?

SageBrush said:
Reliability aside, I would avoid micro-inverters due to the high i^2 losses. I personally also find the parallel wiring scheme
to more difficult to work with and my impression from a few projects is that a lot more cabling is used.

I'd think micro-inverters would require smaller cables and generate less heat in the cables (i^2*R losses). The power through the wires = V*I and with micro-inverters the voltage is much higher so the current is much less. That is the reason long distance power lines are such high voltage; it reduces the transmission losses.

I'll probably sketch out the design with both configurations before I decide. I am a bit worried about the reliability factor (more active parts means more chances of failure to me...) but the reliability is supposedly good and they are covered by a warranty. And if one or two fails, I'd still be generating power from the remainder of the panels. I think the deciding factor will be the cabling concerns since it will be a fairly long run from the panels back to the box.
 
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