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Marktm
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:25 am

RustyShackleford wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:09 pm
We prefer a more modest solution that involves single-digit kilowatt-hours of AGM (or maybe lead-acid) storage; that's still enough to run the fridge & cable modem a day or two and run the well pump enough for drinking and a little washing. I don't know if the installers don't want to bother unless it's as expensive as PowerWall etc, or if the PowerWall deals with a lot of the complication for them.

So that's gonna stop us, at least until I can figure out how to do it. I just can't see having all that power generation on the roof and not being able to use it when the grid goes down.
A useful solution for me that has dual functionality is the following:
- I use a a golf cart to get around at my rural property, so I have about 7.2 kWh useable storage by keeping a spare set of 4 - 150 ahr trojan deep cycles (nameplate) as it is difficult to quickly get replacement batteries to the property - and impossible if a hurricane hits and we go to the rural property during the expected long term power outage at home (we have done this).
- The spare set is set up to be parallel to the golt cart batteries.
- My solar systems consist of Sunny Boys with "secure power" outlets that work well with the OEM 48 VDC golf cart charger that can recharge the batteries during a sunny day when the grid is down.
- I have used APC UPSs that will provide up to 3000 watts of 120 VAC power from the 48 VDC system. OFten very cheap on ebay.
- The system can easily run a a few lights, couple of ceiling fans, TV, and a fridge for at least a 24 hour cycle ( requires full sun days!!)
- I do have a means to manually switch the PV panels to a Midnight charge controller if a long term outage is expected for better capture of a energy during cloudy days. However, this switch its probably a DIY project.
- This dual functionality of getting around the property (quietly) with backup energy storage works great for me.
- Note that I have a propane generator system to run my water pump as it is a relatively large load at 240 VAC, and only intermittant use to refill containers.
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RustyShackleford
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:59 pm
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Location: central NC

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:41 am

Holy old thread, Batman ... thanks for the ideas.

Since my post, I have installed a system, 4.32kW, with a SunnyBoy inverter (with the "secure power" thing). It's a ground mount system, so I don't need to worry about rapid-shutdown (the inverter of course does the anti-islanding UL1741 thing).

I've also rigged the Leaf to drive a 1000watt/120v inverter (per another thread here), which can be connected to a generator inlet (and main breaker interlock) I installed with the solar. I drive both phases of the panel from the same 120vac, which is a bit tricky, but I decided it was safe since I have no MWBCs). This can run fridge, modem/router, and a few lights, for a long time (several days, theoretically). There is one glitch: sometimes the fridge, even if it's the only thing, shuts off the inverter; this must be the auto-defrost, but it still doesn't make sense, since it's not supposed to draw more than 600watts or so. Possibly it makes the 12vdc input to the inverter sag enough to shut the thing down (when it starts up) and I should try a honking big capacitor on the inputs to the inverter ? I guess this is safe for the Leaf. And of course it can't possibly run the well pump; if a power outage seems in the offing, I fill the bathtub for toilet flushing, and draw a few gallons of drinking water. Showers aren't really an issue, since obviously I'm nowhere near being able to run my electric water heater.

Next step: test topping up the Leaf's battery by connecting its portable charging cord to the SunnyBoy's secure-power outlet ...
2018 Nissan Leaf SV
2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i Ltd

Learjet
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:19 pm

I see a 500 acre solar farm out my back yard...why would I need little panels to compete with that.... :D
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Oilpan4
Posts: 1838
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
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Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:40 pm

In 2019 I believe it was about $3 a watt for a fly by night install company to install panels on a string inverter.
Closer to $4 per watt for micro inverter, from a legacy company.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1838
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:42 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:41 am
Holy old thread, Batman ... thanks for the ideas.

Since my post, I have installed a system, 4.32kW, with a SunnyBoy inverter (with the "secure power" thing). It's a ground mount system, so I don't need to worry about rapid-shutdown (the inverter of course does the anti-islanding UL1741 thing).

I've also rigged the Leaf to drive a 1000watt/120v inverter (per another thread here), which can be connected to a generator inlet (and main breaker interlock) I installed with the solar. I drive both phases of the panel from the same 120vac, which is a bit tricky, but I decided it was safe since I have no MWBCs). This can run fridge, modem/router, and a few lights, for a long time (several days, theoretically). There is one glitch: sometimes the fridge, even if it's the only thing, shuts off the inverter; this must be the auto-defrost, but it still doesn't make sense, since it's not supposed to draw more than 600watts or so. Possibly it makes the 12vdc input to the inverter sag enough to shut the thing down (when it starts up) and I should try a honking big capacitor on the inputs to the inverter ? I guess this is safe for the Leaf. And of course it can't possibly run the well pump; if a power outage seems in the offing, I fill the bathtub for toilet flushing, and draw a few gallons of drinking water. Showers aren't really an issue, since obviously I'm nowhere near being able to run my electric water heater.

Next step: test topping up the Leaf's battery by connecting its portable charging cord to the SunnyBoy's secure-power outlet ...
I want to do an array on a sunny boy sps inverter like that. Let me know how it works out. Solar DC straight to AC with no battery should be pretty intolerant to motor starting loads. But it may charge a leaf just fine.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

RustyShackleford
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:59 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: central NC

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:31 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:42 pm
RustyShackleford wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:41 am
Holy old thread, Batman ... thanks for the ideas.

Since my post, I have installed a system, 4.32kW, with a SunnyBoy inverter (with the "secure power" thing). It's a ground mount system, so I don't need to worry about rapid-shutdown (the inverter of course does the anti-islanding UL1741 thing).

I've also rigged the Leaf to drive a 1000watt/120v inverter (per another thread here), which can be connected to a generator inlet (and main breaker interlock) I installed with the solar. I drive both phases of the panel from the same 120vac, which is a bit tricky, but I decided it was safe since I have no MWBCs). This can run fridge, modem/router, and a few lights, for a long time (several days, theoretically). There is one glitch: sometimes the fridge, even if it's the only thing, shuts off the inverter; this must be the auto-defrost, but it still doesn't make sense, since it's not supposed to draw more than 600watts or so. Possibly it makes the 12vdc input to the inverter sag enough to shut the thing down (when it starts up) and I should try a honking big capacitor on the inputs to the inverter ? I guess this is safe for the Leaf. And of course it can't possibly run the well pump; if a power outage seems in the offing, I fill the bathtub for toilet flushing, and draw a few gallons of drinking water. Showers aren't really an issue, since obviously I'm nowhere near being able to run my electric water heater.

Next step: test topping up the Leaf's battery by connecting its portable charging cord to the SunnyBoy's secure-power outlet ...
I want to do an array on a sunny boy sps inverter like that. Let me know how it works out. Solar DC straight to AC with no battery should be pretty intolerant to motor starting loads. But it may charge a leaf just fine.
I finally tested the SPS today for the first time, and I tested it by trying to charge the Leaf with its portable charging cord - the one that can be connected to a 240vac outlet for Level2 charging, or to 120vac using a little adapter that fits over the 240vac plug - which of course I used the latter.

And it worked just fine. Until shade started impacting the panels. Which reduces the output much more than I'd been led to believe by some people at the solarpaneltalk forum who said I didn't need optimizers ...

This is the way I'll likely use the SPS too. In the rare event of a several day power outage (or one that takes me by surprise, so I can't fully charge the Leaf beforehand), I'll try to use the SPS to add some charge to the Leaf when the sun is shining. Since mainly I'll use the backup power for some lights (at night), in addition to the fridge and cable modem.
2018 Nissan Leaf SV
2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i Ltd

RustyShackleford
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:59 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: central NC

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:36 am

RustyShackleford wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:31 pm
I finally tested the SPS today for the first time, and I tested it by trying to charge the Leaf with its portable charging cord - the one that can be connected to a 240vac outlet for Level2 charging, or to 120vac using a little adapter that fits over the 240vac plug - which of course I used the latter.

And it worked just fine. Until shade started impacting the panels. Which reduces the output much more than I'd been led to believe by some people at the solarpaneltalk forum who said I didn't need optimizers ...

This is the way I'll likely use the SPS too. In the rare event of a several day power outage (or one that takes me by surprise, so I can't fully charge the Leaf beforehand), I'll try to use the SPS to add some charge to the Leaf when the sun is shining. Since mainly I'll use the backup power for some lights (at night), in addition to the fridge and cable modem.
A critical issue now is, can the Leaf be charged WHILE it is switched on (into "ready" mode) ? Because it has to be switched on in order to supply 12vdc current to my 120vac inverter. And I'd like to be able to run that inverter even during the day while the sun is shining and I'm using SPS to top up the battery.
2018 Nissan Leaf SV
2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i Ltd

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