LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:28 pm

Any BEV only becomes compelling when it becomes cheaper to operate than a ICE.



For large numbers of people, yes. There can be other, more individual reasons, though. Aversion to gas and oil fumes and stains (and gas stations), ICE noise, regular trips to dealers for oil changes and other ICE services, and a desire to be moving away from the carbon energy sector. They aren't majority concerns, but they weigh heavily among many early adopters. In these cases we are willing to pay more, as long as we can afford it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:31 pm

Interest does vary quite a bit by location, but we’re only a few miles from Boulder - an eco Mecca - and I’m surprised at the reactions I’ve gotten.

Also, I’m aware that Tesla doesn’t advertise in the traditional sense, but they have certainly been very successful at creating excitement and brand loyalty. To their credit.

As to our future plans, we’ll have to see. My wife is recovering from a major injury and can no longer drive. We may end selling everything and going in a different direction.
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI

GaleHawkins
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:41 pm

frontrangeleaf wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:31 pm
Interest does vary quite a bit by location, but we’re only a few miles from Boulder - an eco Mecca - and I’m surprised at the reactions I’ve gotten.

Also, I’m aware that Tesla doesn’t advertise in the traditional sense, but they have certainly been very successful at creating excitement and brand loyalty. To their credit.

As to our future plans, we’ll have to see. My wife is recovering from a major injury and can no longer drive. We may end selling everything and going in a different direction.
Sorry to hear about your wife's major injury. While I am not a one vehicle man I think a 300+ mile range Tesla could make a great ONE vehicle option the best EV out there at this time.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:54 pm

I think that a Tesla, like a Leaf, should be a primary or secondary vehicle, but not the sole one - with the exception of city dwellers, who should be ok with the Leaf. I'd be too worried about repair downtime with the Teslas to suggest one as someone's only car, except with maybe a rideshare membership.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2126
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:27 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:28 pm
Any BEV only becomes compelling when it becomes cheaper to operate than a ICE.



For large numbers of people, yes. There can be other, more individual reasons, though. Aversion to gas and oil fumes and stains (and gas stations), ICE noise, regular trips to dealers for oil changes and other ICE services, and a desire to be moving away from the carbon energy sector. They aren't majority concerns, but they weigh heavily among many early adopters. In these cases we are willing to pay more, as long as we can afford it.
Thats probably the boat we are in, if I did the math, how many miles we drive, depreciation, insurance, need to keep a second ICE for trips, etc. the Leaf isn't saving us any money but I sure like to be able to look at gas prices YoYo and not really give a damn ;) The Leaf also has several driving advantages, quick warm-up, nice heated steering wheel, ability to easily preheat, easy to make many short trips with no adverse effects to vehicle, etc.
To me I just don't see an advantage to a 300+ EV, most of our trips are either 1000 miles+(where a BEV just wouldn't be as practical) or in suburb/in-town and a 100 mile(even with lots of heat use) would be sufficient(note we currently have an 8 and 11 bar 24kwh Leaf which does not meet that need) so I'm thinking our ideal BEV would have say a 40kwh battery, maybe 62 max. Of course were also thinking about a PHEV such as a Prius Prime or RAV4 prime that would kill 2 birds with one stone and save money on insurance and upkeep of 2 vehicles.....if/when the RAV4 Prime comes out to our area and doesn't cost an arm and a leg or have any deal breakers such as no heated steering wheel, cramped cockpit or lack of storage, at least as much storage as our old Prius.....
Not so sure the Leaf was a car before it's time but Nissan sure didn't improve on it much after introduction, well unless you include the longer range battery which is important but many of the other quirks/annoyances since introductions are still around from what I've read. Too bad as Nissan really had the leg up on basically everyone else, I think it must be a management thing at Nissan, ineptness at a high level :(
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GaleHawkins
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:35 am

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/ZERO ... /HISTORY/

When one looks back to the 73 years of Nissan history with EV's it current state shows the will/vision to lead the EV revolution mainly was forgotten over the past 10 years.

After 24 years of building Lithium Ion battery powered EV's one would think by now they could have mastered building Lithium Ion batteries for EV's.

As sad as is the news out of Nissan is today and how they could not capitalize on their lead in Lithium Ion powered EV's they have shown the demand for low price EV's world wide. It just will be China that brings the lower priced EV's (including lower end Tesla's) to the world EV market.

Even though the Leaf clearly was a car before it's time (only because Nissan lost their way) the Leaf will always be my first EV. :)

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:29 am

Of course were also thinking about a PHEV such as a Prius Prime or RAV4 prime that would kill 2 birds with one stone and save money on insurance and upkeep of 2 vehicles.....if/when the RAV4 Prime comes out to our area and doesn't cost an arm and a leg or have any deal breakers such as no heated steering wheel, cramped cockpit or lack of storage, at least as much storage as our old Prius.....
I seem to recall that the RAV-4 Prime will have the heated steering wheel only in the top trim level, continuing the head-in-ass policy begun by manufacturers who sell in the US of making driver comfort a multi-thousand dollar "option."
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

johnlocke
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:34 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:54 pm
I think that a Tesla, like a Leaf, should be a primary or secondary vehicle, but not the sole one - with the exception of city dwellers, who should be ok with the Leaf. I'd be too worried about repair downtime with the Teslas to suggest one as someone's only car, except with maybe a rideshare membership.
Repair down time is an issue for anyone with a single vehicle household. You solve it with a rental car. I don't think that any BEV is as likely to have repair issues as an ICE but that's my opinion. If you live in the city and never make long trips, then a 40 or 60 KWH is more than adequate. Any thing smaller will have problems with battery life (just too many charge cycles). As batteries improve and costs come down, I think that 60 KWH will become a standard size and larger batteries will become an option like a V6 or V8 engine is in a ICE.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:21 pm

My concern with Tesla is the possible length of the downtimes, which would make a rental car pricey. I should amend that, though, to say that I mean cases in which there isn't a Tesla repair facility nearby.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2126
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:57 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:29 am
Of course were also thinking about a PHEV such as a Prius Prime or RAV4 prime that would kill 2 birds with one stone and save money on insurance and upkeep of 2 vehicles.....if/when the RAV4 Prime comes out to our area and doesn't cost an arm and a leg or have any deal breakers such as no heated steering wheel, cramped cockpit or lack of storage, at least as much storage as our old Prius.....
I seem to recall that the RAV-4 Prime will have the heated steering wheel only in the top trim level, continuing the head-in-ass policy begun by manufacturers who sell in the US of making driver comfort a multi-thousand dollar "option."
:(
If that includes a sun/moon roof I won't do it! When cars had plenty of headroom I liked a sun/moon roof but almost all modern cars have very little headroom, add a sun/moon roof and I hit my head :x
I've said it before and will say it again, standard(even on the base S model!) heated seats(front and rear!) and heated steering wheel, sold me on a new(in '13) Leaf :)
The Outlander PHEV is similar, one must get the top trim model to get a heated steering wheel, which includes the sunroof :x
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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