Page 4 of 6

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am
by LeftieBiker
I'm not trying to take sides, but Tesla batteries have indeed caught fire on multiple occasions. We have yet, AFAIK, to see a confirmed case of a Leaf battery fire. There is one possible Leaf battery fire in a YouTube video, with no further information on the actual cause. The higher performance of Tesla battery packs comes from using a more volatile battery chemistry, with more individual cells, than the Nissan packs. The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one. WetEV has often tried to associate liquid cooling systems with battery fires, but AFAIK has provided no actual evidence of this having happened. Let's try to keep our views grounded in facts, folks, or at least labeled as opinions...

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:27 am
by Evoforce
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am
I'm not trying to take sides, but Tesla batteries have indeed caught fire on multiple occasions. We have yet, AFAIK, to see a confirmed case of a Leaf battery fire. There is one possible Leaf battery fire in a YouTube video, with no further information on the actual cause. The higher performance of Tesla battery packs comes from using a more volatile battery chemistry, with more individual cells, than the Nissan packs. The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one. WetEV has often tried to associate liquid cooling systems with battery fires, but AFAIK has provided no actual evidence of this having happened. Let's try to keep our views grounded in facts, folks, or at least labeled as opinions...
Still trying to steer conversations? I know I spoke the facts... We don't want any of them to catch fire and I think both companies are doing a good job at mitigating that. It is in the best interest of all, that all EV's improve as much as possible for BEV adoption.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:19 am
by cwerdna
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am
The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one.
I received my notice for this today. It makes no mention of fire.

It says
Due to a manufacturing issue, which has since been corrected, certain LEAF vehicle's lithium-ion battery bonding plates may not meet Nissan internal standards for corrosion resistance. The plates may corrode and in some areas where road salt is extensively used, could break. In rare cases, during vehicle servicing, if both plates break, the battery cover plate is removed and the vehicle is left in READY mode, a technician could be exposed to electric shock if all EV servicing instructions are not followed. Although no such incidents have been reported to Nissan, this voluntary service campaign is being conducted as a preventative measure out of an abundance of caution.
A hypothetical possibility of fire seems to have been invented by Evoforce in one of his earlier replies.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:26 am
by SageBrush
The Tesla fleet has had fires at about 1/10 the rate of the ICE fleet. When the LEAF can replace a Tesla instead of requiring an ICE in reserve to handle drives the LEAF cannot THEN one can argue that a safety advantage exists. And then the argument will be more than a stretch because the Tesla are high powered sports cars that get driven different than the LEAF fleet. No other high powered car comes anywhere *close* to the Tesla fire, or overall safety record. WetEV is generating FUD and Cwerdna is doing his usual job of muddying the waters with anecdotes.

Incidentally, I read the other day a fellow who buys salvage Teslas say that those cases he has seen of "battery fires" actually originated in the brakes from overheating related to a stuck piston/pin from lack of use.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:30 am
by Evoforce
cwerdna wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:19 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am
The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one.
I received my notice for this today. It makes no mention of fire.

It says
Due to a manufacturing issue, which has since been corrected, certain LEAF vehicle's lithium-ion battery bonding plates may not meet Nissan internal standards for corrosion resistance. The plates may corrode and in some areas where road salt is extensively used, could break. In rare cases, during vehicle servicing, if both plates break, the battery cover plate is removed and the vehicle is left in READY mode, a technician could be exposed to electric shock if all EV servicing instructions are not followed. Although no such incidents have been reported to Nissan, this voluntary service campaign is being conducted as a preventative measure out of an abundance of caution.
A hypothetical possibility of fire seems to have been invented by Evoforce in one of his earlier replies.
You are hilarious also and trying to mislead. I was told by service that a possible short because of this could lead to fire as well as what you listed. Just because it did not say that in the notice does not mean that it is not possible. After all, Nissan has a bad enough battery reputation. They are not going to put it in writing that a short could lead to fire in their battery... but service was verbally able to tell me this. More power to Nissan for making this service campaign to correct something that could be very bad for BEV's and their adoption. Newer Leafs are apparently not a part of this service campaign.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:34 am
by LeftieBiker
A hypothetical possibility of fire seems to have been invented by Evoforce in one of his earlier replies.
I actually thought I saw that in the initial announcement. Either the wording was changed shortly thereafter or my memory was mislead by the er, flame war here.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:00 am
by danrjones
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:06 pm
We do the same thing with the usb cigarette lighter plug in to have 2 up front.

Kids have one of those usb blocks in the back for long rides. In some ways it’s easier than rear USB as they can keep it between them.
Indeed the 12v seems to put out more power

I have (had?) a igloo cooler that ran on the 12v plug. It melted the plug in my truck. Not sure that was suppose to happen, and igloo owes me a fix.

I am just nit picking on the USB issue. Love my leaf. And I'm sure I would love a tesla. There is always room to improve on almost any vehicle. Not sure why you guys need to fight over it. A true eV society needs a wide variety anyway. Right now I happen to think the leaf is the best looking EV in my price range. (Ok, I got a steal on it though) I love the hatchback look. This whole argument about which is best is silly. I really doubt fires among Leaf or Tesla are worse than ICE vehicles, and overall, EV's are all more reliable.

As long as people go in KNOWING the limitations on each EV, life can't be all that bad. I knew what I was getting.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 am
by DougWantsALeaf
The USB on our new Leaf is much more powerful then the Gen 1 Leaf USB. Yes, 2 USB's would have been nice, but for 99% of the time, its not an issue.

Outside of the US, it looked like Canada Leaf sales were down (in spite of some long waiting times), Norway is up, Europe is steady. Too soon for the new LATAM, Australia, and South East Asia markets to get much data. Anyone see data from the UK?

Overall car sales were weak last month. Also overall EV sales seem to have flattened. I wonder if we have hit a wall in terms of market penetration as Early adopters have moved over now.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:25 am
by tannerj
I guess they prefer Teslas and Toyota Prius'.

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:35 am
by DougWantsALeaf
Leaf reported as best seller at dealerships in Ireland:

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home ... -leaf.html