Suspension Upgrade Possibilities?

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JimSouCal

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
860
My estimated delivery month is April. Woo hoo!

Back in the Fall, I drove the LEAF and loved it, with the exception of the soft ride, and well, rather comfy spongy handling.

Not looking for a Tesla, but I am willing to give up comfort for better steering precision and road grip, and ostensibly, the safety of a more precise car.

Does anybody have any notion of how this may be accomplished? I have heard the Versa shares some components, and may see how others have done it…

Clearly, it may be suspension, tires, and wheels. Any thought out there?
 
JimSouCal said:
My estimated delivery month is April. Woo hoo!

Back in the Fall, I drove the LEAF and loved it, with the exception of the soft ride, and well, rather comfy spongy handling.

Not looking for a Tesla, but I am willing to give up comfort for better steering precision and road grip, and ostensibly, the safety of a more precise car.

Does anybody have any notion of how this may be accomplished? I have heard the Versa shares some components, and may see how others have done it…

Clearly, it may be suspension, tires, and wheels. Any thought out there?

My thought would be to wait for a Type S from Tesla, or possibly the Ford Focus as they might handle more to your liking. After putting over 2000 miles on my Leaf, I can't see where you would be able to do too much to improve the handling. It is, after all, not a sports car, but a family commuter car, and the weight and balance is pre-set. You may be wasting money trying to turn it into something that it's not.
 
Jimmydreams said:
...After putting over 2000 miles on my Leaf, I can't see where you would be able to do too much to improve the handling. It is, after all, not a sports car, but a family commuter car, and the weight and balance is pre-set....

Thanks for your suggestion, but I am getting the car regardless... As I said, I am not looking for a Tesla, and already have a true sports car.

I am looking to upgrade to a tuned suspension. I had an econo box in the 80's, and a suspension upgrade and new set of tires & wheels worked wonders.
 
One word of caution... most performance tires would be wider and of a softer compound. That will cause a reduction in range. Low rolling resistance does not mean high lateral grip. I am going to weigh a couple wheels/tires from my LEAF sometime soon, and knowing the tire weight (20 lbs per data from Bridgestone), we should know the wheel weight. Going with lighter wheels should help with range as well... if the stock wheels are heavy. Also, plus sizing the wheels/tires will also affect linear performance/range, even if the same total weight, as the major inertia (rim) is moved further from the center of rotation.
 
Some wheels, tires and alignment will likely go a long ways, but be prepared to take some efficiency hit depending on the tires you end up with. The stock size rear tires off the Tesla may be a good candidate (Yokohama Neova AD07 LTS 225/45/17) as supposedly they have pretty low rolling resistance for their grip level...

The stock EP100 tires are also available in 215/45/17 but the service rating (87W) is a bit lower than the stock tires (91V). These tires are about the same overall weight as the stock tires (21 vs 20 lbs) and a lot lighter than the AD07 (25 lbs). Of course, they won't grip as well, either.

If you head to tirerack.com you can see what tires are available and full specs. 215/45/17 or 225/45/17 would be a good +1 tire size for the Leaf as it will keep your odometer/spedometer readings very close to the same.

I would also love to see some mild sport springs available as an upgrade. I have some now on my WRX and vastly prefer them over the stock springs.
 
JimSouCal said:
Jimmydreams said:
...After putting over 2000 miles on my Leaf, I can't see where you would be able to do too much to improve the handling. It is, after all, not a sports car, but a family commuter car, and the weight and balance is pre-set....

Thanks for your suggestion, but I am getting the car regardless... As I said, I am not looking for a Tesla, and already have a true sports car.

I am looking to upgrade to a tuned suspension. I had an econo box in the 80's, and a suspension upgrade and new set of tires & wheels worked wonders.

Ok, I guess I should add a bit to my original comments. I don't think you can improve the handling much without taking hits to your range. I commute in my car 60+ miles a day, so range is ALWAYS first and foremost in my mind. I tend to forget that people will want to do more with the car with range taking a backseat. ;)
 
I noticed when I drove the car hard it under-steered early and strongly. A larger real anti-roll bar would tighten up the handling and reduce the under-steer. That would be an easy and cheap modest handling improvement.
 
mogur said:
I noticed when I drove the car hard it under-steered early and strongly. A larger real anti-roll bar would tighten up the handling and reduce the under-steer. That would be an easy and cheap modest handling improvement.
I'm betting you can dial in a bit of negative camber in the front wheels for basically free if you can DIY that will also help. :)

One of my first planned mods...
 
bpifer said:
As for the suspension, I like to use Ground Control ( http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/index.php ) for springs and sways. They will take the weights of any car and work with you to figure out how much firmer you want and recommend some settings to try.

For the shocks, I like the KYB AGX-8. They are an 8 way adjustable damper that you can pretty much change the settings on at any parking lot with no tools.

If you're looking for a designed and tested "system", you may have to wait a bit for the Leaf to have a bigger market presence. Feel free to PM any questions.

Brian

The problem is there is a torsion beam in the rear so there are not many great solutions for that besides just springs and shocks. In order to dial out the under steer you will probably want a weaker front swaybar, dial in negative camber, or softer springs up front. Or, just do as I do and have a gas car as a back-up/sports car. My MX-5 on Ohlins coilovers, large front swaybar, clutch LSD, and 255 tires does very nicely in the turns, especially at autox events.

Also, do not go too low as you do not want to scrape the undertray/battery pack on a speed bump, etc.

I think people will be wasting their time trying to get this car to "handle" and they will only be disappointed in what they are able to achieve (if at all) and possible loss in range.
 
bpifer said:
As for the suspension, I like to use Ground Control ( http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/index.php ) for springs and sways. They will take the weights of any car and work with you to figure out how much firmer you want and recommend some settings to try.
Ah yes, I forgot about them. You'll also get some ride height adjustability with their sleeves and it's easy to swap out the springs for different rates should you choose.

bpifer said:
For the shocks, I like the KYB AGX-8. They are an 8 way adjustable damper that you can pretty much change the settings on at any parking lot with no tools.
Right - but struts/shocks are application specific. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for KYB to make these for a low volume EV...

Of course, without stiffer shocks/struts, you are extremely limited in what you can do with spring rates...

Skywagon said:
I think people will be wasting their time trying to get this car to "handle" and they will only be disappointed in what they are able to achieve (if at all) and possible loss in range.
Eh - people waste time on all sorts of things. ;) Look at how many people mod Camrys and Accords. :)

I think a modest improvement should be possible without too much compromise and that should satisfy most. For trips to the auto-x course a spare set of wheels/tires with wide sticky rubber should do the trick - and they'll fit in the back with room to spare so you can swap them out at the course. :)
 
I haven't looked at the service manual to see if it is true for the Leaf but many strut type cars are not adjustable in camber without aftermarket parts. Plus you run the risk of tire wear, wander, and other problems with too much negative camber on a modest street car.

drees said:
mogur said:
I noticed when I drove the car hard it under-steered early and strongly. A larger real anti-roll bar would tighten up the handling and reduce the under-steer. That would be an easy and cheap modest handling improvement.
I'm betting you can dial in a bit of negative camber in the front wheels for basically free if you can DIY that will also help. :)

One of my first planned mods...
 
drees said:
I think a modest improvement should be possible without too much compromise and that should satisfy most. For trips to the auto-x course a spare set of wheels/tires with wide sticky rubber should do the trick - and they'll fit in the back with room to spare so you can swap them out at the course. :)

My only concern in auto-x'ing the LEAF is Nissan and their over-willingness to void warranties for people who do competition events with their cars. Also, as of now, it is not listed in the rulebook so you have to go off the general rules. Using the center of gravity formulas that the rulebook enforces the LEAF does not qualify. Also, since it is not listed directly in the rulebook it would be classified into an SP category; if it were to meet the CG calculation rules to start with. The Solo rules committee may or may not add the LEAF to the rulebook; as they chose to add the Honda Fit but not the Scion XB and they are both really close if you use the general formula. I have sent an email off to the SEB and have not heard anything back.
 
Note that you can put an anti-sway bar on the rear, even if its a torsion bar system.

Hoping you dont flip the car and kill yourself (and scrap a beautiful LEAF) you can remove or weaken the front sway bar to increase oversteer.. increase camber and perhaps wider tires at the front only. Easiest way is to temporarily remove the front sway bar and carefully test it, and if you like it have a custom thinner sway bar made. Wider/low profile tires on the front only will decrease your range, not sure about camber changes and economy, but they will definitely make the car feel different.

You can also play with air pressures on the front tires but I'm not sure how it would work out with modern radials, in the old days of bias ply tires increasing the front air pressure would decrease understeer.

The LEAF uses some parts from the Versa, I believe it is the rear torsion bar setup.

I'm sure lots of these components will start becoming available in Japan very soon now, body kits etc.
 
Rear antisway bar for a Versa

http://www.evasivemotorsports.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=WL-BNR16Z&Category_Code=WL-SWAY-NISSAN&Store_Code=EM

http://forums.nicoclub.com/rear-sway-bar-in-the-usa-t440141.html

http://forums.nicoclub.com/whiteline-swaybar-install-t335522.html
 
Skywagon said:
My only concern in auto-x'ing the LEAF is Nissan and their over-willingness to void warranties for people who do competition events with their cars.
Yeah, that's generally an issue with most cars. If you're worried about it - you're best off waiting until your warranty is up.

Skywagon said:
I have sent an email off to the SEB and have not heard anything back.
Sounds like you are an auto-x regular. ttweed has also mentioned auto-x as well (he's a Porsche club member).

Herm said:
You can also play with air pressures on the front tires but I'm not sure how it would work out with modern radials, in the old days of bias ply tires increasing the front air pressure would decrease understeer.
Tire pressure adjustments still works great with modern tires... Stock pressures are 36psi all around. I suspect that higher pressures for the front and lower for the rear will help the car rotate a bit better.

Herm said:
I'm sure lots of these components will start becoming available in Japan very soon now, body kits etc.
Hopefully! Though usually importing parts from Japan is rather expensive..
 
drees said:
Skywagon said:
My only concern in auto-x'ing the LEAF is Nissan and their over-willingness to void warranties for people who do competition events with their cars.
Yeah, that's generally an issue with most cars. If you're worried about it - you're best off waiting until your warranty is up.

I guess I am expecting no resistance to auto-x'ing from Nissan as as I have had a full support with Mazda since day 1 of ownership. I had a full warranty along with support parts at dealer cost.

drees said:
Skywagon said:
I have sent an email off to the SEB and have not heard anything back.
Sounds like you are an auto-x regular. ttweed has also mentioned auto-x as well (he's a Porsche club member).

Yes, I am an auto-x regular and compete in STR with a class prepped '07 MX-5.
 
Skywagon said:
I guess I am expecting no resistance to auto-x'ing from Nissan as as I have had a full support with Mazda since day 1 of ownership. I had a full warranty along with support parts at dealer cost.
Mazda must be an exception. I did have fun at one of their auto-x events w/drivers training a while back and even had the fastest time for a few hours. :)

But I know that Subaru, Mitsubishi, Honda and Toyota have been known to deny warranties. Not sure how things fare among the domestic automakers...
 
Skywagon said:
My only concern in auto-x'ing the LEAF is Nissan and their over-willingness to void warranties for people who do competition events with their cars.
They would be very foolish to do this without some evidence of abuse that caused the warranty claim. Autox is not a very abusive form of competition (er--we like to call it "precision driving exercise" instead of "competition") if drag-strip starts, over-rev incidents, and missed shifts are avoided (none of which should be an issue with a Leaf--no clutch to burn, no rev limit, and no shifts!)

Also, as of now, it is not listed in the rulebook so you have to go off the general rules. Using the center of gravity formulas that the rulebook enforces the LEAF does not qualify. Also, since it is not listed directly in the rulebook it would be classified into an SP category; if it were to meet the CG calculation rules to start with. The Solo rules committee may or may not add the LEAF to the rulebook
The center of gravity in the Leaf should be lower than for an ICE car, with the battery pack in the floor. I don't see that being a problem. Unless you are talking national events, the car does not have to be in the rulebook. Most SCCA regions have supplemental rules that allow anything to be run, either as exhibition class or in some supplemental (non-national) class. Our local region here in San Diego has a class called SU (Super Unlimited) that is a catch-all for any car on DOT tires. Besides, you aren't going to be competing for a trophy with the car, it would never be competitive in any class, unless they create some specifically for EVs. It's much too heavy and underpowered. Autocrossing it would just be for fun, and the experience, so if your local SCCA region won't let you run, there are other games in town. Try the PCA, BMWCCA, Miata, Corvette, Lotus or other clubs--they often will be organizing their own marque-specific events and might allow "exhibition" entries from other marques, even if you're not a club member.

I don't intend to modify my Leaf at all, since it is going to be my wife's car and I have several others for sports purposes, but I will definitely take it to an autox or a performance driving school at least once when it arrives to safely test its handling at the limits of grip, so I know what to expect in an emergency situation.

TT
 
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