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Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:45 am
by arnis
For those who even consider an idea that Noise Maker makes presence in traffic somewhat different, think again.
Most other EV-s and PHEV do NOT have that and no reports (anywhere in the world) about people not hearing.
At speeds VSP sound is heard there is almost no accidents at all (with pedestrians). The only exception is reverse.



From my perspective traffic is very noisy. The only people who rely on sound are deaf people. And VSP doesn't help
them as they do not practice jaywalking. And they hear vehicles.

And again, I should repeat: no accidents with other EV-s PHEV-s. VSP is just unnecessary precaution. It was reasonable
to try it out on 2011/2012 models but going on with that is just foolish.

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:22 pm
by Nogood
Could you PM me a price for both options msport? The vsp triggers my tinnitus in slow traffic so I would be interested in turning it off when safe to do so.

Thanks?

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:44 am
by aarond12
Add me to the list as well.

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Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:35 am
by ltbighorn
Definitely interested as well. Being able to remove it before taking it to the dealer would be a nice plus.

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:19 am
by cwerdna
arnis wrote: Most other EV-s and PHEV do NOT have that and no reports (anywhere in the world) about people not hearing.
At speeds VSP sound is heard there is almost no accidents at all (with pedestrians). The only exception is reverse.
AFAIK, every single Toyota and Lexus (non-plugin) hybrid, PHEV (e.g. Plug-in Prius) and EV (e.g. CA compliance car Gen 2 Rav4 EV) from 2012+ model year has their noisemaker aka VPNS. You can hear it at http://priuschat.com/threads/2012-prius ... eo.104980/. I hear most definitely hear them in parking lots (usually from Priuses and sometimes from Lexus CTs, besides the other usual vehicles). I have driven the 2012 PiP and 2015 non-plugin Prius and both of these of model years in between + the Rav4 EV a few times.

Prior to model year 2012, Toyota didn't put on any noisemakers.

To get any idea of US sales volume, add up all the Toyota and Lexus hybrids, PHEVs and EVs CY numbers at http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2014-dashboard/ and http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2015-dashboard/. http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/ ... +chart.htm has all of the Prius family lumped together. In 2015 alone in the US, Toyota sold about double the amount of Priuses (184K) of ALL Leafs that have ever been sold/leased in the US since it began in Dec 2010 (http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-ends-2 ... es-in-u-s/).

Although I've had no time nor motivation to participate in the discussion/debate, bwilson4web at Priuschat used to often complaint about "bell the hybrid" and his dislike of noisemakers. Google for site:priuschat.com bell the hybrid.

I don't know the validity of the studies or claims at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ident.html and http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... ians_.html, but I did find them via a quick Google search.

Fisker Karma has a noisemaker. Fiat 500e also supposedly has a noisemaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3r9LRGMHEY. I can't speak to Hyundai's current status, but the Sonata Hybrid got a noisemaker (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/24/hyun ... tual-engi/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tFgF9bhdWA, http://worldwide.hyundai.com/WW/Showroo ... index.html). Hyundai's term is virtual engine sound system.

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:49 am
by arnis
Exactly. I also don't know validity of studies. We can't even have any papers about those studies that
support "silent killer" headlines.

One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... pean_Union
So even here we can't see studies that prove effectiveness (less accidents). "They just did it".

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:25 am
by TimLee
arnis wrote:... One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.
...
:o :shock: :o :shock:

A grossly absurd statement.
At 10 mph the car may not be dented.
But a significantly high probability the pedestrian will be seriously injured.
Or could be dead from brain injury when they fall.

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:25 pm
by arnis
TimLee wrote:
arnis wrote:... One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.
...
:o :shock: :o :shock:

A grossly absurd statement.
At 10 mph the car may not be dented.
But a significantly high probability the pedestrian will be seriously injured.
Or could be dead from brain injury when they fall.

Once again opinions without any specific data that supports that opinion :|

Image
Image

As we know kinetic energy formula is exponential we can estimate that probability of any injury
at speeds up to 10mph. And that is way below 20%.


Some reading:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/rese ... 09012.html

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:01 pm
by dhanson865
arnis wrote:
TimLee wrote:
arnis wrote:... One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.
...
:o :shock: :o :shock:

A grossly absurd statement.
At 10 mph the car may not be dented.
But a significantly high probability the pedestrian will be seriously injured.
Or could be dead from brain injury when they fall.

Once again opinions without any specific data that supports that opinion :|


Image

As we know kinetic energy formula is exponential we can estimate that probability of any injury
at speeds up to 10mph. And that is way below 20%.


Some reading:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/rese ... 09012.html
Tim is right about serious injuries at 10 mph from the NHTSA graph even if he was implied a higher than minimal risk of death. Even then the risk of death is not 0%, It might be low risk to be hit by a car at 5 mph but people do die that way.

another factor to consider is EU requires crash testing vs pedestrians and will mark a car as unsafe if it is more likely to injure or kill a pedestrian. US does not do that and cars sold in the US often have slight modifications to save money that make them less safe here than they would be in Europe.

US will probably add testing but it's highly likely to be less strict than the pedestrian testing in the EU.

Re: Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:47 pm
by martindoehring
From real life. A couple of years ago, I was crossing the street in downtown boston, in the crosswalk with the walk signal.
A prius decided to make a right on red and missed me by a couple of inches. I had no idea he was there since he was coming from behind and trying to pass in front of me, until he almost hit me.
And yes, I was listening, there was no sound.