Reagle
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:00 am

Answering my own question- the threaded holes are M8x1.25 . A 12mm long bolt fits nicely and has enough length to grab a cable lug
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RustyShackleford
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:24 pm

woodgeek wrote:Had a short outage this AM, and used the LEAF system to backfeed my house for an hour. All 240V breakers off. 100-500W. No issues.
Even with 240v breakers off, the panel is drawing juice from both "hot" rails (depending upon which slot the 1-pole/120v breakers are attached to. How did you handle this ? Did you use a 240vac inverter ?
FYI: Backfeed was done with appropriate interlock in place, if you don't know how to do this safely, don't.
I'm a little confused about this. Merely turning off the main breakers on your load center disconnects you from the grid. Is the interlock necessary simply because you might forget to do this ?
2018 Nissan Leaf SV
2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i Ltd

RustyShackleford
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:46 pm

So having just acquired a barely-used Leaf (40kwh), and loving it BTW, I am intrigued by this thread. I have one complication, and that is that I get my water from a well, so that's one of my most essential loads (along with fridge). Apparently a 1/2HP pump draws about 2100watts startup surge and 1000watts running. Sounds like this rig can probably handle this, with one big problem; the well pump is a 240v load (to minimize losses in the wiring from the house and then down the bore). Obviously 240v inverters exist, as that's what most solar systems use, but they tend to be very expensive and have features we don't need and often expect DC inputs in the hundreds of volts (series strings of solar panels). Has anyone here had the need to power their well during outages, and found a reasonably priced 2000watt or so inverter ? Another issue: I've also read that inverters HATE big inductive loads like motors, so is this even practical, is it addressed by way over-sizing the inverter, or what ?
2018 Nissan Leaf SV
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:43 pm

You can get big, cheap inverters from places like Harbor Freight, but the power they produce won't be especially "clean." The wave profile will be more square than sine wave, and this can cause problems with electronics that plug in directly (no "wall wart") and with some motors. Given the well load, if you can't find a decent priced 240 volt 3000/4000 watt inverter, you might want to consider a store brand dual fuel generator that will run on propane and produce 240 volts. That's what I have, and just used during a 15 hour outage.
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jdcbomb
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:53 pm

If I recall correctly the electrical code requires an interlock if one sets up a backfeed. Its simply a heavy duty switch that prevents power from flowing back to the electrical grid from your LEAF for example.
RustyShackleford wrote:
woodgeek wrote:Had a short outage this AM, and used the LEAF system to backfeed my house for an hour. All 240V breakers off. 100-500W. No issues.
Even with 240v breakers off, the panel is drawing juice from both "hot" rails (depending upon which slot the 1-pole/120v breakers are attached to. How did you handle this ? Did you use a 240vac inverter ?
FYI: Backfeed was done with appropriate interlock in place, if you don't know how to do this safely, don't.
I'm a little confused about this. Merely turning off the main breakers on your load center disconnects you from the grid. Is the interlock necessary simply because you might forget to do this ?
2018 Leaf SV - In Service 2019 January - Location: Raleigh, NC.
2013 Leaf SL - Original In Service 2013 February - Bar Losses: 2016.10.17 - 25,843 Miles -- 2017.06.23 - 32,080 Miles -- 2018.04.10 - 37,000 Miles -- 4th: 2018.09.23 - 44,255 Miles

jdcbomb
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:00 pm

I'm pretty sure the DC-DC charger from the main battery to the 12V has a certain power output maximum (4 kW?). If you find a 240V inverter with sufficient power for the well, you may need to ensure it doesn't exceed max 3 kW on the safe side. Of course the 240v inverter will be significantly more expensive than a 120V inverter...but could be still cheaper than a gas generator (and no maintenance).

This was my experience with a 120V: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f ... er#p536383
RustyShackleford wrote:So having just acquired a barely-used Leaf (40kwh), and loving it BTW, I am intrigued by this thread. I have one complication, and that is that I get my water from a well, so that's one of my most essential loads (along with fridge). Apparently a 1/2HP pump draws about 2100watts startup surge and 1000watts running. Sounds like this rig can probably handle this, with one big problem; the well pump is a 240v load (to minimize losses in the wiring from the house and then down the bore). Obviously 240v inverters exist, as that's what most solar systems use, but they tend to be very expensive and have features we don't need and often expect DC inputs in the hundreds of volts (series strings of solar panels). Has anyone here had the need to power their well during outages, and found a reasonably priced 2000watt or so inverter ? Another issue: I've also read that inverters HATE big inductive loads like motors, so is this even practical, is it addressed by way over-sizing the inverter, or what ?
2018 Leaf SV - In Service 2019 January - Location: Raleigh, NC.
2013 Leaf SL - Original In Service 2013 February - Bar Losses: 2016.10.17 - 25,843 Miles -- 2017.06.23 - 32,080 Miles -- 2018.04.10 - 37,000 Miles -- 4th: 2018.09.23 - 44,255 Miles

LeftieBiker
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:42 pm

I'm pretty sure the DC-DC charger from the main battery to the 12V has a certain power output maximum (4 kW?).
More like 1.8kwh. He would have to use at least a modest battery bank, charged from the Leaf, to power a 240 volt inverter. In many cases it's simpler and cleaner to use the Leaf. In this case I'd suggest either a dual fuel generator or a larger, grid-charged battery bank. To use the Leaf a Chademo port 'reverse QC' unit would probably work best.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RustyShackleford
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:48 pm

jdcbomb wrote:If I recall correctly the electrical code requires an interlock if one sets up a backfeed. Its simply a heavy duty switch that prevents power from flowing back to the electrical grid from your LEAF for example.
There is already such a heavy-duty switch, it's the main breakers in the main panel. My question is, what does this transfer switch do that the main breaker can't ? Is it simply that it's automatic, in case one forgets to turn off main breakers when energizing backup system ?
2018 Nissan Leaf SV
2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i Ltd

RustyShackleford
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:59 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2018
Location: central NC

Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:55 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: More like 1.8kwh. He would have to use at least a modest battery bank, charged from the Leaf, to power a 240 volt inverter. In many cases it's simpler and cleaner to use the Leaf. In this case I'd suggest either a dual fuel generator or a larger, grid-charged battery bank.
You know, this actually occurred to me. This outfit (https://invertersrus.com/product-catego ... -vac-60hz/) sells inverters that output 240v (as well as split phase 120v for some) which they claim can power well pumps. With some batteries, this rig could power my essential loads (including the pump) and then use the Leaf to charge those batteries; seems like an excellent solution.

Many of these inverters seem to have built-in battery chargers too.
2018 Nissan Leaf SV
2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i Ltd

jdcbomb
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Re: Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:18 pm

Indeed there is a main breaker switch, but often these switches are on the outside of a home, and it's certainly possible that someone could inadvertently turn it back on, without fully disconnecting any backfeed, hence the interlock to prevent this.
RustyShackleford wrote:
jdcbomb wrote:If I recall correctly the electrical code requires an interlock if one sets up a backfeed. Its simply a heavy duty switch that prevents power from flowing back to the electrical grid from your LEAF for example.
There is already such a heavy-duty switch, it's the main breakers in the main panel. My question is, what does this transfer switch do that the main breaker can't ? Is it simply that it's automatic, in case one forgets to turn off main breakers when energizing backup system ?
2018 Leaf SV - In Service 2019 January - Location: Raleigh, NC.
2013 Leaf SL - Original In Service 2013 February - Bar Losses: 2016.10.17 - 25,843 Miles -- 2017.06.23 - 32,080 Miles -- 2018.04.10 - 37,000 Miles -- 4th: 2018.09.23 - 44,255 Miles

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